A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

LIppmann reports a 950 meter winch launch with their Dynatec winch line - anything higher?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 17th 04, 01:50 AM
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default LIppmann reports a 950 meter winch launch with their Dynatec winch line - anything higher?

Lippmann in Germany reports a winch launch to 950 meters (3100').
http://www.lippmann.de/hoistline.htm

Has anyone heard of a higher launch?

Bill Daniels
  #2  
Old December 17th 04, 02:35 AM
Larry Bogan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The video does not show the speed and wind conditions... but it seems to
be a long launch time (1-1/2 minutes)

I would love to know all the conditions.

In a good headwind with a 5000 ft of wire, we have launched our K8's
routinely above 2000' and I faintly remember one launch being sited as
near 3000'.

Larry Bogan
Bluenose Soaring Club
Nova Scotia

Bill Daniels wrote:
Lippmann in Germany reports a winch launch to 950 meters (3100').
http://www.lippmann.de/hoistline.htm

Has anyone heard of a higher launch?

Bill Daniels

  #3  
Old December 17th 04, 02:47 AM
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

My information, obtained indirectly through two languages, is that it was
near zero wind. The initial rope length was 2Km so they achieved slightly
less than 50% of that which sounds reasonable to me. 90 seconds on the wire
is a loooong winch launch.

Bill Daniels

"Larry Bogan" wrote in message
...
The video does not show the speed and wind conditions... but it seems to
be a long launch time (1-1/2 minutes)

I would love to know all the conditions.

In a good headwind with a 5000 ft of wire, we have launched our K8's
routinely above 2000' and I faintly remember one launch being sited as
near 3000'.

Larry Bogan
Bluenose Soaring Club
Nova Scotia

Bill Daniels wrote:
Lippmann in Germany reports a winch launch to 950 meters (3100').
http://www.lippmann.de/hoistline.htm

Has anyone heard of a higher launch?

Bill Daniels



  #4  
Old December 17th 04, 02:49 AM
Bob Johnson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'd like to find out more about this record -- they claim to be acheiving
about 50% line length release altitude in almost a dead calm 1 m/s (2.5 Kt).

Our 5000 ft (1500 m) Spectra line weighs only 66 lb (30 kg) and we release
at about 1700 ft. (520 m), not all that much better than the steel line we
used to use -- this "Hoistline" must have something going for it besides
light weight!

Bob Johnson


Dynatec Hoistline is the new winds start rope out of plastic.

It is in many areas superior to the conventional wire. Not only in the
point Betriebssicherheit, that
separate increase lets itself also in the start height according to rope
length until 30%.

On this side, you find the current News to the Dynatec
oistline. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
..

Start with a 2,000 m Hoistline!

Result: would relax 950 ms!

Here a video of the start!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
..

Current News:

An interview with the 1st chairperson of the AEC Landau, Mr. Thilo Ott. The
society has used the Hoistline already for almost 3 years
successfully: interview pdf

Hoistline long start with a 2,000 m!

More than 3,000 starts with the first Dynatec Hoitsline in Landau!

New! Now also F-train lines of Hoistline!

German heights record with Dynatec Hoistline!

The AEC Landau reached 8 incredible 900 ms in the winds start with a Ka!
Further records should follow!

Dynatec Hoistline collaborates perfectly with the new electro start winds:

The first tests of the new Dynatec Hoistline on the also new electro winds
of the firm Ulbrich- industry electronics especially positively passed.
They show, functions that just these new winds especially well with the
Dynatec Hoistline. It gives more information
under www.startwinde.de and on the Aero in hall 1 state 109.

Further successful initial use:

A m Saturday (15.03.2003) around 10.40 clock we made the first start in
Rostock Purkshof at the plastic rope. The conditions were not optimal, easy
back wind (1m/s) and only 1250 ms rope length. As an airplane, we had
occupied a Bocian doppelsitzig (full mass). Train height nevertheless 510
ms!! Further 13 starts were made and all with about the same results. We
had a Sollbruchstellen tear (incorrectly stuck) and a Seilrißimitation; both
without
problems. The Seilhändling, is reported has like your it; extremely easily.
The skeptics here in the society are upset for Saturday also. Now it
arrives only on the durability. René Rietz

The well known Eggerwinde successfully with the Dynatec Hoistline tested:

The well known wind manufacturer Egger tested its current wind already that
with new winds start rope Dynatec Hoistline. The attempts passed
according to manufacturer very positively. Also the manufacturer developed
first a special cap device for the Hoistline. This is also individually
available. Further information under www.eggerwinde.de. D o w n l o a d s:

Reconstruction instructions for the winds of the AEC-Landau. Teil 1 ,
Teil 2

Test report plastic start rope (ca. 2MB) in that "magazine sail fly",
author Tino



--


----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by MailFrontier Desktop
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:Y2qwd.770486$8_6.538044@attbi_s04...
Lippmann in Germany reports a winch launch to 950 meters (3100').
http://www.lippmann.de/hoistline.htm

Has anyone heard of a higher launch?

Bill Daniels



  #5  
Old December 17th 04, 07:06 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Bill Daniels wrote:
Lippmann in Germany reports a winch launch to 950 meters (3100').
http://www.lippmann.de/hoistline.htm

Has anyone heard of a higher launch?

Bill Daniels


No but I did get a 2-22 to a solid 2000agl on an auto tow launch, with
fixed and moving pully on a 5000 foot runway, once,at sunset. It was
truly a special moment.

MM

  #6  
Old December 17th 04, 09:34 AM
OscarCVox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

At our site in the UK we are restricted to a max 300ft winch launch. However I
have seen this achieved several times.
Well over 3000 ft is achievable if you use the kiting technique, ie let cable
out slowly when the glider is at the top of the launch but still attached, then
wind in to kite up to a higher level. This can be repeated until you run out of
cable. It is only achievable with a substantial headwind.
  #7  
Old December 17th 04, 05:13 PM
Andreas Maurer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:49:58 -0600, "Bob Johnson"
wrote:

I'd like to find out more about this record -- they claim to be acheiving
about 50% line length release altitude in almost a dead calm 1 m/s (2.5 Kt).


Well... I've seen all these launches... and there was always lot of
headwind, usually at least 20 kts.


Our 5000 ft (1500 m) Spectra line weighs only 66 lb (30 kg) and we release
at about 1700 ft. (520 m), not all that much better than the steel line we
used to use -- this "Hoistline" must have something going for it besides
light weight!


I guess Lippman quotes some false numbers. Having used a steel rope
and a the plastic rope on the same winch fpr one year, the plastic
rope did not have a significant advantage concerning achievable height
(between 100 ft for an ASK-21 and at maximum 300 ft for a Ka-8).

In my opnion the advantage es the handling, not in the launch heights.





Bye
Andreas
  #8  
Old December 17th 04, 09:29 PM
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Andreas Maurer" wrote in message
...


I guess Lippman quotes some false numbers. Having used a steel rope
and a the plastic rope on the same winch fpr one year, the plastic
rope did not have a significant advantage concerning achievable height
(between 100 ft for an ASK-21 and at maximum 300 ft for a Ka-8).

In my opnion the advantage es the handling, not in the launch heights.

You know, Andreas, I guess it's possible that they lied and then faked a
video of the launch but I think it's more likely that they really did what
they said since a lot of independent people are watching carefully. It
could be that Lippmann gets high launches because they really know their
stuff.

Bill Daniels

  #9  
Old December 17th 04, 11:21 PM
Lou Frank
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thirty five years ago I certainly broke a UK winch launch height record from
Hus Bos. After packing the hangar for the day because of 25kt plus westerly,
a handful of us elected to do some kiting. I was the lucky one in a
Swallow, and kited up through a thin layer of stratus to just over 3,000'
when a jerk on the cable warned me it had broken. I dutifully released my
end and celebrated with a half dozen loops down and up through the stratus.

When I eventually landed, everyone was running around. I learned that the
winch driver had been a little late the drum of outgoing cable and the end
of the cable had pulled off the drum. When I released the 3ft parachute my
end opened and the wind dragged around 4,000' of solid steel wire a couple
of miles cross country - blacking out a couple of villages en-route. We
spent several hours (and experienced much apprehension) retreiving and
cutting the cable into manageable pieces, and carting it away in the back of
a truck.

We swore each other to secrecy, and vowed never to repeat the adventure. We
had no repercussions despite media reports of blackouts. I think now the
tale can be told...
Lou Frank

"OscarCVox" wrote in message
...
At our site in the UK we are restricted to a max 300ft winch launch.
However I
have seen this achieved several times.
Well over 3000 ft is achievable if you use the kiting technique, ie let
cable
out slowly when the glider is at the top of the launch but still attached,
then
wind in to kite up to a higher level. This can be repeated until you run
out of
cable. It is only achievable with a substantial headwind.



  #10  
Old December 18th 04, 02:05 AM
Andreas Maurer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:29:41 GMT, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:

You know, Andreas, I guess it's possible that they lied and then faked a
video of the launch but I think it's more likely that they really did what
they said since a lot of independent people are watching carefully. It
could be that Lippmann gets high launches because they really know their
stuff.


No need to fake anything, Bill...

I've seen at least a dozen of 3.000ft+ launches of them, but with
6.500 ft of rope it's pretty easy to get high if the wind is strong
enough.
Of course with such long ropes the light weight of the plastic starts
to play a role - the longer the rope, the more advantageous gets a
light rope.

With the standard rope length of about 4.000 ft the height advantage
compared to our steel cable (on a slightly stronger winch) is
impossible to judge visually.


Bye
Andreas
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I need winch launch videos Bill Daniels Soaring 21 December 1st 04 07:41 PM
Aerotow with Diesel engine? Olfert Cleveringa Soaring 44 November 2nd 04 11:22 AM
Weak link for winch launch - 1-26E??? Mark Zivley Soaring 4 April 29th 04 11:38 PM
Blanik Weak Link for Winch Launch??? Gary Emerson Soaring 6 February 24th 04 09:08 PM
Safety of winch launch vrs. aero tow? Gary Boggs Soaring 172 November 13th 03 07:59 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.