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Thermal right, land left



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 9th 04, 04:55 PM
John
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Default Thermal right, land left

This past year, I have stuck to a policy of making all thermal turns
to the right only.

The airport I fly out of has left turns in the pattern. My idea is I
am developing the habit of turning slow to the right only. All left
turns are made at higher pattern speeds.

With the condition I am just recreationally flying locally (don't have
to be that efficient and can burn a turn to center each thermal by
going the "wrong way"), I found that thermaling for a while to the
left, then landing made the high speed left turns in the pattern feel
a bit "different". This was especially noticiable after not flying
for awhile. The result was babying the plane thru the turns instead
of "bank and yank".

Does this make sense for low-time pilots, or pilots who take time off
from flying occasionally? Seems like if you have not flown for
awhile, then thermal a few dozen slow left turns, you would naturally
tend to prefer slow left turns in the pattern. That is what you were
just praticing to do, after all.

Is there safety benefits to thermaling only to the right, and landing
only with left turns? Will a pilot develop habits or preference for
slow speed right turns and high speed left turns?

John
  #2  
Old March 9th 04, 05:18 PM
Scott
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Default

As far as I am concerned, landing and thermaling are two different things.
Keep them separate. At altitude, thermal any which way you want, as long as
you do it safely. Practice landings over and over again if you feel
something is "different." Each time you enter the pattern, you should set
yourself in "Landing Mode" and everything should feel the same every time
except for minor adjustments for wind or other aircraft. If you're going to
have an accident, statistics say it will happen in the landing pattern: So
keep your landings the same every time.
"John" wrote in message
om...
This past year, I have stuck to a policy of making all thermal turns
to the right only.

The airport I fly out of has left turns in the pattern. My idea is I
am developing the habit of turning slow to the right only. All left
turns are made at higher pattern speeds.

With the condition I am just recreationally flying locally (don't have
to be that efficient and can burn a turn to center each thermal by
going the "wrong way"), I found that thermaling for a while to the
left, then landing made the high speed left turns in the pattern feel
a bit "different". This was especially noticiable after not flying
for awhile. The result was babying the plane thru the turns instead
of "bank and yank".

Does this make sense for low-time pilots, or pilots who take time off
from flying occasionally? Seems like if you have not flown for
awhile, then thermal a few dozen slow left turns, you would naturally
tend to prefer slow left turns in the pattern. That is what you were
just praticing to do, after all.

Is there safety benefits to thermaling only to the right, and landing
only with left turns? Will a pilot develop habits or preference for
slow speed right turns and high speed left turns?

John





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  #3  
Old March 9th 04, 06:28 PM
Bill Gribble
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Default

John writes
Is there safety benefits to thermaling only to the right, and landing
only with left turns? Will a pilot develop habits or preference for
slow speed right turns and high speed left turns?


What if there were already another glider in the thermal but running
anti-clockwise? Would you forgo the obvious thermal so kindly marked out
by the other aircraft rather than take it to the left, or take it to the
right regardless of the precedent set by the glider there first?

Is the pattern where you fly always on a left hand circuit? Even if it
is, approaching it in such a formulaic fashion can't be conducive to
safety. Keeping a flexible and open mind to the variation of
circumstance and being confident and competent to adapt and cope
accordingly is a much safer approach, IMHO. And the best place to
practice co-ordinated turns of any attitude is at altitude.

And in any case, from the little I've seen myself, some thermals require
as aggressive a turn as any final turn into approach might justify in
order to work them properly. And not every turn, or at least not every
adjustment in the pattern absolutely demands an aggressive a turn as the
final turn should be.

--
Bill Gribble

/-----------------------------------\
| http://www.cotswoldgliding.co.uk |
| http://scapegoatsanon.demon.co.uk |
\-----------------------------------/
  #4  
Old March 9th 04, 06:39 PM
Vorsanger1
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Default

John: the issue of joining a gaggle of other gliders which are thermalling to
the left has already been addressed by another pilot. I would like to add
this: the airport out of which you fly has a left turn pattern. Will you
*always* fly out of that airport, and *never* out of another where the pattern
may be different? It is best to practice both right and left turns at altitude
in order to feel comfortable in either.

Cheers, Charles
  #5  
Old March 9th 04, 07:56 PM
Bill Daniels
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Posts: n/a
Default


"John" wrote in message
om...
This past year, I have stuck to a policy of making all thermal turns
to the right only.

The airport I fly out of has left turns in the pattern. My idea is I
am developing the habit of turning slow to the right only. All left
turns are made at higher pattern speeds.

With the condition I am just recreationally flying locally (don't have
to be that efficient and can burn a turn to center each thermal by
going the "wrong way"), I found that thermaling for a while to the
left, then landing made the high speed left turns in the pattern feel
a bit "different". This was especially noticiable after not flying
for awhile. The result was babying the plane thru the turns instead
of "bank and yank".

Does this make sense for low-time pilots, or pilots who take time off
from flying occasionally? Seems like if you have not flown for
awhile, then thermal a few dozen slow left turns, you would naturally
tend to prefer slow left turns in the pattern. That is what you were
just praticing to do, after all.

Is there safety benefits to thermaling only to the right, and landing
only with left turns? Will a pilot develop habits or preference for
slow speed right turns and high speed left turns?

John


The subject of preferred turn direction has come up all too frequently on
this news group.

If you can't thermal equally well to the right and left, or fly patterns
equally well to the right and left, please get more training! Don't be
surprised if other pilots avoid you in the air until you can do both well.

I believe that the inability to turn well in both directions is a strong
indicator of diminished flying abilities. As such, it is a reliable
precursor to an accident. On a BFR, it's a showstopper.

Bill Daniels

  #6  
Old March 9th 04, 08:18 PM
Martin Gregorie
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Default

On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:28:15 +0000, Bill Gribble
wrote:

And in any case, from the little I've seen myself, some thermals require
as aggressive a turn as any final turn into approach might justify in
order to work them properly. And not every turn, or at least not every
adjustment in the pattern absolutely demands an aggressive a turn as the
final turn should be.

Right on. The strongest thermal I found last season was also very
narrow - it only worked well with a 60 degree bank and very careful
flying (a Pegase gets twitchy when asked to turn that tight). It would
not have been usable with another glider sharing it at a similar
height.

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

  #7  
Old March 9th 04, 09:31 PM
Chris OCallaghan
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Default

John,

For what it's worth, I don't think this is a good idea. You may not
have a choice which way you thermal, especially if you join others. If
you have concerns about maintaining proper airspeed in the pattern, I
suggest the following: at some fixed altitude well above the IP,
increase your airspeed to pattern speed and maintain it while you make
your way to the IP. Even if you decide to stop and test a potential
thermal, keep flying at your chosen pattern speed. If you decide to
stay with the thermal to extend your flight, then slow down. If not,
keep up your speed. This will attune you to the sound, feel, and pitch
attitude of the glider for several minutes prior to enterning the
pattern.

If your IP altitude is 700 msl, you could increase your speed as soon
as you descend below 1500 msl. And remember, in the pattern, you
should be checking your ASI often, at least once every 7 seconds. Any
variation in speed should be addressed immediately. If your speed
varies more than + or - 5 knots, you should take a refresher flight
with an instructor. There's no shame in sharing a flight with someone
who can help get you back in the groove more quickly.

OC
  #8  
Old March 10th 04, 12:06 AM
Shawn Curry
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Default

Bill Daniels wrote:

The subject of preferred turn direction has come up all too frequently on
this news group.

If you can't thermal equally well to the right and left, or fly patterns
equally well to the right and left, please get more training! Don't be
surprised if other pilots avoid you in the air until you can do both well.

I believe that the inability to turn well in both directions is a strong
indicator of diminished flying abilities. As such, it is a reliable
precursor to an accident. On a BFR, it's a showstopper.

Bill Daniels

Equally well? So, when I do my BFR I should make my left turns slightly
less precise, so they match my perfectly adequate right turns. Seems a
bit harsh.
:-)

Shawn

P.S. I try to thermal to the right more than left, so I won't have to
fudge as much on my next BFR.
  #9  
Old March 10th 04, 01:34 AM
Mark James Boyd
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Posts: n/a
Default

I've always just flown the direction of the lifted wing for
the thermal. Sure, you could probably just do them all to
the right, and it wouldn't make much difference,
but if you ever competed, the extra falling out of the thermal
and the confusion when joining others would be
new.

I personally don't like thermalling right turns, because of
my power experience (left is best!), but when I look at my traces,
I'm about 50/50.

The reason many patterns are left, and right for helicopters, is
because this is where the pilot has the seat and the best vis in
side-by-side seating. In low vis circle-to-lands, it's nice to
be on the correct side of the cockpit...

In article ,
John wrote:
This past year, I have stuck to a policy of making all thermal turns
to the right only.

The airport I fly out of has left turns in the pattern. My idea is I
am developing the habit of turning slow to the right only. All left
turns are made at higher pattern speeds.

With the condition I am just recreationally flying locally (don't have
to be that efficient and can burn a turn to center each thermal by
going the "wrong way"), I found that thermaling for a while to the
left, then landing made the high speed left turns in the pattern feel
a bit "different". This was especially noticiable after not flying
for awhile. The result was babying the plane thru the turns instead
of "bank and yank".

Does this make sense for low-time pilots, or pilots who take time off
from flying occasionally? Seems like if you have not flown for
awhile, then thermal a few dozen slow left turns, you would naturally
tend to prefer slow left turns in the pattern. That is what you were
just praticing to do, after all.

Is there safety benefits to thermaling only to the right, and landing
only with left turns? Will a pilot develop habits or preference for
slow speed right turns and high speed left turns?

John



--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA
  #10  
Old March 10th 04, 03:32 AM
BTIZ
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Default

LOL Shawn... if the turns are "adequate".. the BFR should not be an issue...
don't have to be perfect.. just safe... but I do remember something about
the BFR standards being to the level of the rating.. so if you hold a
Commercial rating, the BFR standard is higher than a Pvt pilot.

BT

"Shawn Curry" wrote in message
news:16s3c.529913$na.1269374@attbi_s04...
Bill Daniels wrote:

The subject of preferred turn direction has come up all too frequently

on
this news group.

If you can't thermal equally well to the right and left, or fly patterns
equally well to the right and left, please get more training! Don't be
surprised if other pilots avoid you in the air until you can do both

well.

I believe that the inability to turn well in both directions is a strong
indicator of diminished flying abilities. As such, it is a reliable
precursor to an accident. On a BFR, it's a showstopper.

Bill Daniels

Equally well? So, when I do my BFR I should make my left turns slightly
less precise, so they match my perfectly adequate right turns. Seems a
bit harsh.
:-)

Shawn

P.S. I try to thermal to the right more than left, so I won't have to
fudge as much on my next BFR.



 




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