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Parachutes again



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 24th 05, 06:48 PM
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Default Parachutes again

I received about a week ago 2 parachutes for repack. Nothing special
about it. But in this particular case they require special attention.
The first was made by Security Parachute Co. from San Leandro in
California. The second is a Original Softie fitted with 1965 Pioneer 4
line canopy. Now...the Security 150 was manufactured in May of 1978.
When I opened it I discovered pilot chute in very poor shape. According
to the manual the pilot chute spring should have 30 pounds of force.
Measured 15 lbs. Stitching coming apart. Then I concentrated on the
canopy...it looked O'K visually but it did not passed the acid test.
Since the system was repacked only 7 times since new, the rubber stows
holding your lines in the container fused themselves to the canopy main
suspension lines. They can be cleaned though. But still....
Now, the second rig, Original Softie equipped with the 1965 Pioneer
canopy...I don't want to even talk about it. This canopy is only 1 year
younger then I am. And when I started inspecting it, I found little
holes around the seams. It is called stress. And it caused by constant
rubbing of your rig seams against the fabric.
If any one has a question about a Security parachute please contact
Allen Silver at Phone: 1-510-785-7070 =B7 Fax: 1-510-785-9213. This guy
closed the Security after the British bought it and he will tell you
that every single Security parachute needs to be retired or used as a
car cover. In addition Mr. Silver is operating rigging loft and he is a
former president of Parachute Industry Association.
The second case with the 1965 manufactured canopy is also very familiar
to us. The canopy is simply old, tired and needs to be discarded.
For a purpose of understanding, the PIA is divided on the life span of
parachutes. The National limits the life span of their systems to 15
years. Paraphernalia Softie limits theirs I believe to 20 years. I will
call Dan Tarasievitch later on to confirm that. PIA and Paragear
Equipment will not pack and service rigs older then 20 years. Why all
that? Well, there were some documented failures of parachutes older
then 20 years. I am not trying to convince any one of you but if you
have an interest in the subject matter you can contact PIA or Paragear
and talk to Paul Thompson. Paragear phone number is (847) 679-5905
Fax: (847) 679-8644. If you need to talk to Dan Tarasievitch with
Softie his phone number is 360-435-7220.
When anyone of you goes to maintenance shop for your annual inspection
your A&P tells you that you need this and that... you comply with it.
You don't go and fly your glider with a damaged spar because you think
your mechanic is screwing with you.
Now, the same is with parachute riggers. When we are repacking your
parachute we actually doing more then just the repack job. We are going
through every stitch, every line, every piece of webbing, we are
checking your parachute inside and out. And when we do pack it and put
our individual seal on it and then signed it with our name and license
number, we are assuring you that your parachute is airworthy for next
120 days and if needed during that time frame it will work properly.
Also, I was told by a few pilots that they are using parachutes as a
cushions in a glider. This is illegal and if any FAA inspector catches
you, they will suspend your license for whatever time frame. Besides
not being legal it is also stupid. You are lying to yourself.
Any way, I don't sell parachutes for a purpose of clarification, I can
get some parts to keep them airworthy just like your A&P would to keep
your glider flying. But go and get yourselves a new(wer) rig made by
Softie, Strong or National.

  #2  
Old February 24th 05, 07:29 PM
chipsoars
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I've seen some of the old chutes you mentioned that my rigger wouldn't
touch. Yet the individuals that owned them, got mad at the rigger and
found someone else to do it. IMO, stupid, stupid and even more stupid.
I don't understand why people are so cheap, particularly when it comes
to safety. I'd like to be confident if I ever have to exit the glider,
that the chute will work as advertised. You only get one chance with
these and one ought to keep the odds as favorable as possible.

And the day my rigger tells me the rig is shot I'll spend the bucks
even if my it is painfully expensive. I owe that much to my family.

Chip F.

  #3  
Old February 24th 05, 07:51 PM
Mark Zivley
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Also, I was told by a few pilots that they are using parachutes as a
cushions in a glider.


While this is a quote that is occaisionally heard, it's not meant to be
taken literally. It usually means that although the chute is there to
be called upon in an emergency, the odds are that during the flight it
will only serve the purpose of being a cushion. It doesn't necessarily
mean that the chute is not being worn in the proper manner or that it is
out of re-pack.

Realize that in many gliders if you chose not to wear a parachute, you
would probably need to use some sort of a seat cushion in order to sit
in the glider comfortably. Which would you choose.... cushion, or a
parachute?

  #4  
Old February 25th 05, 02:08 AM
Graeme Cant
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Tim Mara wrote:

this is EXACTLY the reason the FAA put required pack intervals on pilot
emergency parachutes....
if it were 'recommended" you pay 50 bucks every 120 days to repack your
parachute as opposed to being an FAA "requirement" (meaning you are in
violation of a regulation) would you?......and if you didn't do what was
"recommended" every 120 days..would you at 1 year? or two.....or??
You might......not everyone would....... now let's look at this also from
the parachute manufacturers point also..... would your widow call the local
TV ad for a lawyer in the event you didn't do what was "recommended"
it's not personal.....and it's not my regulation.but if we agree to the
rules to get a pilots certificate, with all the baggage that comes along
with it, we have in fact, said we understood and would comply with the
regulations.....some of which actually do make sense..
tim


I agree with your philosophy on regs Tim but in the case of the
parachute packing rules, I would be interested in seeing the statistical
backup for the rule.

Would once every 2 years be a problem? I'd guess a lot of riggers see
chutes whose last signature is more than 2 years ago. What percentage
of these are aired, refolded and encased again without any other defect
being found? In chutes less than 6 years from the factory, I'd say it
would be 100% If it isn't, the factory needs the FAA's inspectors, not
the parachute owner.

It's now well understood that many failures in aircraft equipment
actually originate from excessive checking and testing. I'd be
surprised to learn that parachute repacking was exempt from that
experience. What's the chance that a defect in a ten year old parachute
was caused by one of its 30 repacks rather than normal usage?

I know that regular drying is important but wouldn't it be simpler to
devise a moisture detection system with an indicator (colour change?) on
the outside rather than mandate the risks inherent in large numbers of
repacks?

All the data are available from the riggers.

I notice that Autoflug now offer a hermetically sealed emergency chute
with a repack interval of 5 years in use and a shelf life of 25 years.
It costs more but it saves what? ...$50 x 15. $750? Could other
manufacturers do the same? My suspicion is that they haven't taken the
market by storm because this is one reg that is so out of whack with
common experience that very few chute owners actually spend the $750.

A regulation so widely disregarded needs a repack...er...rethink.
GC
  #5  
Old February 25th 05, 03:39 AM
Tim Mara
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this is EXACTLY the reason the FAA put required pack intervals on pilot
emergency parachutes....
if it were 'recommended" you pay 50 bucks every 120 days to repack your
parachute as opposed to being an FAA "requirement" (meaning you are in
violation of a regulation) would you?......and if you didn't do what was
"recommended" every 120 days..would you at 1 year? or two.....or??
You might......not everyone would....... now let's look at this also from
the parachute manufacturers point also..... would your widow call the local
TV ad for a lawyer in the event you didn't do what was "recommended"
it's not personal.....and it's not my regulation.but if we agree to the
rules to get a pilots certificate, with all the baggage that comes along
with it, we have in fact, said we understood and would comply with the
regulations.....some of which actually do make sense..
tim

Wings & Wheels
www.wingsandwheels.com

"Mark Zivley" wrote in message
. com...

Also, I was told by a few pilots that they are using parachutes as a
cushions in a glider.


While this is a quote that is occaisionally heard, it's not meant to be
taken literally. It usually means that although the chute is there to be
called upon in an emergency, the odds are that during the flight it will
only serve the purpose of being a cushion. It doesn't necessarily mean
that the chute is not being worn in the proper manner or that it is out of
re-pack.

Realize that in many gliders if you chose not to wear a parachute, you
would probably need to use some sort of a seat cushion in order to sit in
the glider comfortably. Which would you choose.... cushion, or a
parachute?



  #6  
Old February 25th 05, 04:11 AM
Jack
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I don't have great experience with this, but I did make 3 military
jumps back when my young knees would take my then 151 pounds... I don't
want to think about that now, so don't ask... I recently got a 'chute
with a glider purchase. It hasn't been repacked in a couple of years.
It's less than 10 years old. Why, though, should I repack it 3 times in
a year? Will I use it in winter? Will it deteriorate more if it's not
repacked but left in it's container? I still favor the 180-day repack
if not just annually for these chutes that just get worn in the
cockpit. Yes, the age thing is proabbly a viable issue. But to me, it's
kind of like making all airline pilots retire at 60... probably a
waste, much of the time.

Just my nickel's worth...

Jack Womack

  #7  
Old February 25th 05, 04:38 AM
chipsoars
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There is an initiative, reported at the SSA BoD meeting in ONT to
extend the repack cycle to 180 days. Whether or not the chute is safe
is not so much the point as the FAA and the FAR's. THEY make the rules
and if in the course of a check you are not in compliance, you pay the
penalty.

Chip F

  #8  
Old February 25th 05, 04:42 AM
MC
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I was talking to the Strong Rep at the convention and his thought on
repacking was once a year would be fine-no problem at all.


"Jack" wrote in message
ups.com...
I don't have great experience with this, but I did make 3 military
jumps back when my young knees would take my then 151 pounds... I don't
want to think about that now, so don't ask... I recently got a 'chute
with a glider purchase. It hasn't been repacked in a couple of years.
It's less than 10 years old. Why, though, should I repack it 3 times in
a year? Will I use it in winter? Will it deteriorate more if it's not
repacked but left in it's container? I still favor the 180-day repack
if not just annually for these chutes that just get worn in the
cockpit. Yes, the age thing is proabbly a viable issue. But to me, it's
kind of like making all airline pilots retire at 60... probably a
waste, much of the time.

Just my nickel's worth...

Jack Womack



  #9  
Old February 25th 05, 05:42 AM
nowhere
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Default

The funny thing is that when the chute passes it's 120 day repack
limit you can also just leave it in the trailer when you go flying if
you don't want to violate FAA regs......Sort of like requiring a $50
inspection every four months for motorcycle helmets, if you wear one,
but leaving the wearing of them up to the individual rider.

Does anyone out there know what the Canadian regulations are when it
comes to pilot emergency parachute repack schedules? I've looked
through the CARS until they started making me physically nauseous and
the only reference I could find seemed to be exclusively about
skydiving and said that the main and reserve chutes had to be repacked
by a rigger within 120 days of the parachute decsent. As far as I can
tell, there isn't any required repack interval for pilot emergency
chutes here.

That said, I myself would go by the 120 day repack cycle.
  #10  
Old February 25th 05, 08:18 AM
Ramy Yanetz
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Allen Silver has nothing against Security Parachutes. He sold me one few
years ago.

Ramy

wrote in message
ups.com...
(snip)
If any one has a question about a Security parachute please contact
Allen Silver at Phone: 1-510-785-7070 · Fax: 1-510-785-9213. This guy
closed the Security after the British bought it and he will tell you
that every single Security parachute needs to be retired or used as a
car cover. In addition Mr. Silver is operating rigging loft and he is a
former president of Parachute Industry Association.


 




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