When to acknowledge ATC

When they first created the alphabetic areas, I was taught that Class
B airspace required a specific clearance prior to entrance..... thus,
something like "N12345 cleared to enter Class B airspace" as opposed
to just "establishing" two-way communications as required in Class
C.... and just barging in.

You are right, a clearance is required (as opposed to just establishing
communciations), however, the words you quote are NOT the only way that
clearance is conveyed. It's up to the pilot to be sure they have a
clearance.


As for readbacks... As for VFR, I'd have to admit that I'm really not
clear on the absolute requirements, though I tend to read back
everything that shouldn't be obvious or ambiguous....

You NEVER have to readback anything back IFR or VFR with the sole
exception of runway crossing/holdshort instructions. Even then,
the job of insisting on the readback is the controllers, not the pilots.

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
Being ignorant isn't a big deal. We're all ignorant in many ways. I
don't think anyone called you stupid, which would be an insult. Saying
you are ignorant is just a frank way of saying that there is a gap in your
knowledge that you need to fill. It isn't an insult, just a statement of
fact. Once you fill that gap you are now less ignorant, and can move on
to the next are for improvement.

Matt

So now your saying ignorant of English?

A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:
It really makes you want to rethink entering the field if a potential
coworker, who should be helping you on it (albeit, he is helping)
while
not berating you with the next word out of his mouth.


If that's the way you feel, get out FAST. It took me less than a week
in the Center to learn that most controllers are happy to berate
developmentals any chance they can get, for any reason they can come up
with (or for no reason at all).
It's life in the FAA. A thick skin is a requirement. Get used to it
or change your career goals. You will NOT be able to change the FPLs,
especially those who have been around 20 or so years.

TJ Girl


p.s. If you act like you know it all (as you did in this thread) you
will be berated by your coworkers all the more. And washing out is a
very real probability - performance reviews are plenty subjective and
an attitude that rubs your trainer or supervisor the wrong way will
ensure failure.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
.net...
The previous poster is incorrect in what he says

I know. That's why I wrote "Not that the previous poster is correct".

Duh.

George Patterson wrote:
.... in addition to that, I don't "snap to attention" when someone
addresses me. I'm typically thinking, sightseeing, or daydreaming. I
also spend a fair amount of any long flight listening to music (though
not when I'm near something like class-D airspace).

George,

From what you describe above I wonder if you actually may have some
form of Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD).(?) I myself had similar
attention type problems that I assumed were due to my ears fading as a
result of all the rock n' roll concerts, guns, getting older, loud women
I've dated(ha!), and other noise that inundated my ears as a younger man.

I discovered just a few years ago that the problems were not that I
*couldn't* hear but that I *didn't* hear because my brain did not kick
in immediately when being addressed. I would constantly miss the
beginning of a conversation and sometimes drift off in the middle of it.
I could not concentrate on anything that was mundane, repetitious, or
"colorless" regardless of how important it was to me. I was often
distracted away by my own thoughts from a conversation or the task at hand.

I did some training and, vol la! I found out that there really was never
anything wrong with my hearing in the first place! I just wasn't paying
attention.

Just thinking out loud....hope that's not distracting. ;-)

Antonio

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
It's not required for VFR either.

Sigh. You AND Steven?

I never said it was required for VFR. I simply questioned the relevance of
an IFR situation to a VFR discussion.

[...]
Yes, you want to hear the word "CLEARED", no it doesn't have to
be word for word "CLEARED INTO THE CLASS BRAVO.

Yes, I know. I knew it before. I will know it tomorrow.

Sigh.

Larry Dighera wrote:


Just because you can't see 'em, doesn't mean they're not there.


Are you saying you believe in ghosts? ;-)

Antonio

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Pretty much, yup. Especially when the quoted material in a message includes
US publications as yours did.


Oh dear! Let me just say for myself that I don't consider this an
exclusive US newsgroup no matter what the inclusions or exclusions.

Antonio

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

I never said it was required for VFR. I simply questioned the relevance
of an IFR situation to a VFR discussion.


What difference did it make if he was IFR or VFR? He just said he didn't
hear the quoted phraseology while he was on the frequency on the SFO Class B
airspace.

"Antoñio" wrote in message
...

Oh dear! Let me just say for myself that I don't consider this an
exclusive US newsgroup no matter what the inclusions or exclusions.


You're free to consider it anything you like.