When to acknowledge ATC

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

Failure for ATC to correct your incorrect readback does not absolve
you of responsibilty to comply with the original instruction.

It does if they tell you "readback correct". It doesn't if they don't
acknowledge your readback.

On Tue, 10 May 2005 04:40:40 GMT, OP wrote in
::

On Mon, 09 May 2005 06:52:59 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:

On Sun, 8 May 2005 21:42:33 -0500, A Lieberman
wrote in ::

If so, I would be required to read back???

There is no FAA regulation *requiring* reed back of a clearance.
Subsequent to 'rogering' your clearance, you may detect a bit of
consternation in the controller's voice if you are in contact with
her, but that's about it.

I guess a lot depends on the airport/Center area you are flying
from. In meetings with our local ATC, they advise us to readback
all clearances, hold short, taxi, and runway assignments.

Regardless of their advice, there is no FAA regulatory basis for
mandating clearance readback. If ATC instructs a pilot to readback
anything, that is another matter.

The best reason I have for reading back clearances is, if anything
goes wrong, my voice is on the tape repeating the controllers
instructions and getting "readback correct" in return. CYA if you
have to file an ASRS form.

Ron

I'm not sure your reason for repeating controllers' instructions is
useful for the reason you state, but it is just common sense to verify
you've got the information correct.

On Mon, 09 May 2005 21:05:46 -0700, Antoñio
wrote in
::


Steven's categorical reply: "Pretty much, yup... "

Such an assuption is, at best, borderline arrogance.

Yah, but you'll never get him to see it. :-)

"A Guy Called Tyketto" .
Larry Dighera wrote:
If you were truly a candidate to become an Air Traffic Controller, you
would have found the pertinent section(s) in FAA Order 7110.65 and
discovered that it fails to mandate reading back clearances. But you
took the comments as personal insults rather than objective
information and got your feelings hurt. If you're going to be a
controller, you've got to cool and objective. Work on it.

I agree. I did take comments here as insulting. But when you
have someone here telling you that you're ignorant, it's rather hard
not to take that as insulting. Double that coming from a controller. It
really makes you want to rethink entering the field if a potential
coworker, who should be helping you on it (albeit, he is helping) while
not berating you with the next word out of his mouth. I admitted that I
was wrong, and that you're right, the .65P doesn't mandate reading back
clearances. But on the other hand, I deserve more respect than being
insulted, let alone more respect for admitting that I was wrong.

After almost a dozen posts reflecting a unanimous consensus that you're
wronger that Wrongy W. Wrongenstein? You neither deserve nor should ask for
respect on Usenet. Your inability to recognize the improbability that you
could be the only person who got the simple point under discussion right
reminds me of the Larson cartoon with the seeing eye dog walking up the ramp
into the jet engine. You failed the simplest of tests, which is, "know
thine enemy". You picked the fight. Your posts are textbook jackass
material.

That aside, almost nobody, including the best this NG has to offer
(delivering your free education here) are exempt from criticism. Note the
number of disagreements between people in this thread who, pretty much, only
agree you're wrong. If you can't take it here, abandon hope of an ATC job.
At least until their union is back to full strength. (Uh oh. LOVE Usenet.)

moo

Larry Dighera wrote:
They are
tangible ghosts


....Tangible ghosts that can transform you into an intangible ghost? ;-)
(Sorry, I just couldn't resist playing with that great simily.)

Antonio

wrote:




If that's the way you feel, get out FAST. It took me less than a week
in the Center to learn that most controllers are happy to berate
developmentals any chance they can get, for any reason they can come up
with (or for no reason at all).
It's life in the FAA.

It's life in the Centers. Out here in the towers we are normal.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Antoñio" wrote

I quote:

Happy dog:
"Is it assumed that people are posting from the USA unless they make it
known otherwise?"


Steven's categorical reply: "Pretty much, yup... "

Such an assuption is, at best, borderline arrogance.



Actually, it's just an observed fact.

A *fact* which not all of us share; therefore, a self-proclaimed one.

While it may be true that the majority here are from the USA, that still
does not make this a "USA group". That's a *fact* you appear to have
missed for some, not unknown, reason.

Antonio

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
k.net...
But I didn't misread YOUR post.

Whatever. You did, but you're too busy being the kettle and calling all the
other pots black to notice. Probably has something to do with YOUR
monumental ego.

For giggles, let's assume you didn't misread my post. I suppose you were
just reiterating the same point I'd already made then?

What other reason would you have for posting the reply to my post that you
did? I wrote that the previous poster was incorrect, then you replied
saying exactly that. Is that the new Usenet standard now? To just go
around quoting articles and restating what's already been written?

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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"A Guy Called Tyketto" wrote in message
. ..

Yeah.. I've learned not to be assertive around you.


If you're going to be assertive it's a good idea to make sure you're right.

I agree. I thought I was. I found out I wasn't. Now that I've
learned, I've moved on. Apparently, you haven't.


Thanks for making someone who is wanting to put his heart into this career
feel
diswayed.


Diswayed?

My spelling error. Dissuaded. you don't know what it means, go
look it up.


Perhaps I'll be one less controller to replace you from
working harder than you should, or even better, thanks for putting more
burden on yourself.


I'm irreplaceable anyway.

In a job/profession, ANYONE is replaceable. look at your
President. Look at who comes in after you turn 65.


Don't complain if the government requires you to
stay on until you're 80, because with that attitude of yours, no-one
will love working under you. Check yourself.


You think I have an attitude problem? Which of us refused to listen to
reason?

Actually, I know you have an attitude problem. Too bad you
refuse to see, let alone admit it. Remind me to never select nor tour
your facility.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
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Hamish Reid wrote:
In article ,
A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

Hamish Reid wrote:

This thread has certainly had a sort of morbid entertainment value
watching you go up against Steven M, an experienced controller and pilot
-- basically, you seem to be a little out of your depth here...

Fine then, everyone. You're all right, I'm wrong. You don't
need to readback clearances. Everybody happy now?

This is Usenet. The idea of everybody here being happy is kinda funny...
*someone* will find fault with your new position, now :-).

I tried to respond with something I was taught by my
instructors. Now I know what I was told was wrong. I'll go crawl back
into my hole, and shut up because I stood up for what I had learned.
Now that I'm wrong, I'll be quiet.

Well, don't do *that*.... Basically, if all you'd done was "respond with
something I was taught by my instructors", and then thought a little and
researched a lot about the issue when virtually everyone here pointed
out you were wrong (and why), probably none of this would have happened.
But you started questioning people's credentials and giving out abuse --
and ended up maybe getting rather more than you gave, for sure, but your
attitude really didn't help. And it probably won't help with the ATC
job, either....

As for the job, it's a learning curve, and a steep one. But I'm
willing to learn it, and do my best in it. If they tell me that I'm not
cut out for it, I'll do something else. But I'll be satisfied in
knowing that I did my best, and was judged for what I did, not who I
am.

Attitudes will fall away, when experience is built. I admit I'm
young and green about it, but that will change.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
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