Rough Field Landings

I think that has to do with pilots flying from hard surface strips being
afraid of the turf.

wrote:
C Kingsbury wrote :
I used to get a little nervous flying across Phoenix under the class
B shelf at ~1400 ft. AGL until I realized that I was almost always
within gliding distance of an 18 hole golf course, just about anywhere
in the city. There are close to 200 of them. Oddly enough, over the
years we've had more planes land on city streets and highways than on
golf courses.

Providing you can get a signal beneath the forest canopy.

Morgans wrote:
Even a better reason to carry a GPS, even if it is a cheap land based
handheld.

Corn and other crops can be bad on the aircraft but you will survive.

"knee high by the fourth of July" was the formula for the NE US. Up to
about the 4th, corn was landable without damage except to the crop. After
that, you start to get the airframe stained, then banged up and 30 days
later, you will not come out airworthy.

Lots of variations with seasons, crops, and local practices. I was exposed
to what I will call 'insurance' cotton fields in the caprock area of NM/TX.
The cotton that was going to be harvested was irrigated and too high for
damage free landings. Then there were these fields that had been worked and
planted but never irrigated. Perfect for landing and no crop damage. The
helpful rancher from next door told me, "if you never setup the irrigation
on the field, they don't have chance in this area - just planted for crop
insurance claims". Rural welfare I guess but perfect for offield landings.

"zatatime" wrote in message Lastly I never knew corn was
so bad. I heard a story of my first
instructor (old WWII pilot) putting down in a corn field with a
student without any damage. Must've been young corn from the comments
I've seen here. g After that, I've always thought corn was a good
way to go, I will now try to recondition myself to putting it 3rd or
4th on the list when I'm scoping out landing options.

Golf courses can be a bit tougher than they appear. I don't play but after
considering a few from the air, I mentally flew a couple of approaches on
some. They tend to be hilly, they tend to be surrounded by trees (maybe not
in Phoenix), the good spots tend to curve around, there are lots of people
on them when the soaring was good.

The trees were the main problem. A good rule of eye is to assume you can
touchdown no closer to a treeline than 10X the tree's height. So the first
priority is to find an approach path to that fairway - probably between the
tree lines - but then there may be power lines on the less refined courses.
Then nothing is completely flat or smoothly sloped.

I landed on a golf course twice. Unfortunately it was on the same course
in the same spot - the driving range. It seemed to be the best spot on the
entire course especially because no one was walking around in the middle of
it. The 2nd time, the guys took me up the clubhouse to show me a picture of
how some guy had landed there before. It turned out to be me....

Regarding people and athletic fields and stuff. When the engine is out (or
even idle), there is no way to signal anyone that you are landing. They
won't hear you. It would be real bad to land and hit a pedestrian. I've
landed in a soccer field near Allentown PA that was a shortcut for college
kids going to class. Nother scarier than skimming down the field with a 50
foot long scythe (sp) of a wing clipping along at 40mph at waist height.
No one knew I was there until I passed them.

"john smith" wrote in message
...
I think that has to do with pilots flying from hard surface strips being
afraid of the turf.

wrote:
C Kingsbury wrote :
I used to get a little nervous flying across Phoenix under the class
B shelf at ~1400 ft. AGL until I realized that I was almost always
within gliding distance of an 18 hole golf course, just about anywhere
in the city. There are close to 200 of them. Oddly enough, over the
years we've had more planes land on city streets and highways than on
golf courses.

"Maule Driver" wrote

I've
landed in a soccer field near Allentown PA that was a shortcut for college
kids going to class. Nother scarier than skimming down the field with a
50
foot long scythe (sp) of a wing clipping along at 40mph at waist height.
No one knew I was there until I passed them.


You just have to open the vent window and yell, "MAN ON" g
--
Jim in NC

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
. com...
Golf courses can be a bit tougher than they appear. I don't play but
after
considering a few from the air, I mentally flew a couple of approaches on
some. They tend to be hilly, they tend to be surrounded by trees (maybe
not
in Phoenix), the good spots tend to curve around, there are lots of people
on them when the soaring was good.


One problem you might encounter with golf courses in the Phoenix area is
with a desert design concept known as "target golf."

The course will not have turf all the way from tee to green. In fact, many
courses intentionally put "waste" areas full of kitty litter-esque gravel in
areas meant to be carried through the air with a shot and penalize players
who want to roll the ball onto the green. Makes the course harder but saves
water since you don't have as much thirsty grass.

Feeling good about getting on the ground just past the tee box would turn to
a "GULP" when you find that you are on a par 5 where the designer decided to
put washes or "barancas" across the fairway between the landing areas for
the second or third shots.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

"Maule Driver" wrote in message m...
In gliders the mantra was, "land upwind and upslope but upslope is more
important. Down slope is to be avoided."

The challenge is to understand just how steep an approach is required and
how much energy is required to flare properly for steeper slopes. It's not
a minimum speed approach and you must have enough pitch authority to round
out. Much more than one would originally think for steeper slopes.

The rollout or skid will be much shorter which is always good. And it's
easier to hit a spot. Every foot of ground covered after touchdown runs the
risk of hitting something you didn't see. I routinely drove the nose in the
ground with the brake to minimize rollouts over unknown ground.

But for moderate slopes, my experience is that upslope is strongly preferred
even with a moderate tailwind.



When landing upslope judging the moment to flare is also harder...it looks like you are just above the ground but you
will still be high...

Blueskies wrote:
"Maule Driver" wrote in message
m...
In gliders the mantra was, "land upwind and upslope but upslope is
more
important. Down slope is to be avoided."

The challenge is to understand just how steep an approach is
required and
how much energy is required to flare properly for steeper slopes.
It's not
a minimum speed approach and you must have enough pitch authority
to round
out. Much more than one would originally think for steeper
slopes.

The rollout or skid will be much shorter which is always good. And
it's
easier to hit a spot. Every foot of ground covered after touchdown
runs the
risk of hitting something you didn't see. I routinely drove the
nose in the
ground with the brake to minimize rollouts over unknown ground.

But for moderate slopes, my experience is that upslope is strongly
preferred
even with a moderate tailwind.



When landing upslope judging the moment to flare is also harder...it
looks like you are just above the ground but you
will still be high...

Do what I did. Knowing that some of my flying would be onto and off
topdressing airstrips I found instructors who had been topdressing
pilots and learnt from them.
I noticed in a post further back some-one was debating the idea of
landing downhill.
Bad idea.
You not only have the aircraft speed but also the weight and the
downhill slope and nothing to really slow you.
landing uphill is not only a good idea it is also the safest

wrote:

Do what I did. Knowing that some of my flying would be onto and off
topdressing airstrips I found instructors who had been topdressing
pilots and learnt from them.

Depending on how steep the slope is, you must approach with overspeed to
have enough energy to properly flare uphill. It's very good advice to
train this with somebody who has experience.

landing uphill is not only a good idea it is also the safest

Landing uphill is the only way to go. I once landed downhill at an
unknown airstrip, because at that side, the approach was clear of
obstacles, while at the other side it was not, and I, being very low
time then, was afraid to take the approach over trees and between
electric lines.

It was a perfect landing in the sense that the plane remained undamaged
and I'm still alive. But I'm still shivering when I think back.

Stefan