If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
It is likely that the probability of an ACTUAL double release failure on
tow is what ever positive number is closest to zero. Of course that doesn't mean that Mr.Murphy can't serve one of these up. I would be interested in hearing any accounts of actual, non-instructor induced double release failures which required either a landing on tow or purposely breaking he rope to end the problem. I would also be interested in any opinions regarding practicing landing on tow to prepare oneself for this unlikely event. (I know that this is or was a required maneuver in some European countries...but is it worth the risk?) Paul ZZ |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
On Sep 7, 9:05 pm, ZZ wrote:
It is likely that the probability of an ACTUAL double release failure on tow is what ever positive number is closest to zero. Of course that doesn't mean that Mr.Murphy can't serve one of these up. I would be interested in hearing any accounts of actual, non-instructor induced double release failures which required either a landing on tow or purposely breaking he rope to end the problem. I would also be interested in any opinions regarding practicing landing on tow to prepare oneself for this unlikely event. (I know that this is or was a required maneuver in some European countries...but is it worth the risk?) Paul ZZ OK, I've got two True Stories, although I was not a pilot involved in either case. In the first, an experienced pilot came back from a flight and said he'd had a double release failure. He said that he just put a lot of slack in the rope and broke it. No big deal. In the second, an instructor at my current club tried to simulate this situation and tried to land on tow. During descent the towplane got too far below the glider while they were low and a long ways from the airport. When the rope broke from the excessive slack generated by the situation this fellow had no option except for landing in a farmer's field. We had no functional trailer for the L13, either, so the retrieve was quite interesting. Personally, I've been flying gliders for over 20 years and have yet to personally experience a failure of the release or rope. I did witness another glider have a rope "break" (actually his tow hook came unhooked) at low altitude and make a successful return to the launch point though. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
On Sep 7, 7:05*pm, ZZ wrote:
It is likely that the probability of an ACTUAL double release failure on tow is what ever positive number is closest to zero. Of course that doesn't mean that Mr.Murphy can't serve one of these up. I would be interested in hearing any accounts of actual, non-instructor induced double release failures which required either a landing on tow or purposely breaking he rope to end the problem. I would also be interested in any opinions regarding practicing landing on tow to prepare oneself for this unlikely event. (I know that this is or was a required maneuver in some European countries...but is it worth the risk?) Paul ZZ I had a release failure (mostly) on my Open Cirrus (CG hook) once. I landed one thermal short of home plate at a neighboring glider club (UK). I handed a cheque out the clear vision panel and took a launch. When I got to altitude and distance, I pulled the release. Nothing. I pulled another dozen times in rapid succession, nothing. I called the tow plane on the radio, no answer. Called several more time, nothing. I flew out to the left and waggled the wings, no response from the tow plane. I was hoping he wasn't going to give me the "bugger off" wing waggle and turn back. A few more pulls and it let go thankfully. Next step would have been to put in the slack and break it. Seemed a long time, but really only a few moments. The TOST hook was replaced before the next flight. No broken springs, just wear. So, I guess it really depends on how you define release failure. Frank Whiteley |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
Paul,
I was fortunate enough to be trained in this procedure, albeit 35+ years ago. I was at summer camp that Fred Robinson had for kids at Crystalaire. We're jarring a few cobwebs here but if I remember correctly, the glider would decend to a low tow position and use the spoilers for decent. The glider would touch down first but you had to be careful not to stall and drop the towplane in with excessive braking. We had a 1-34 at the time that needed a radio installed. We didn't have a trailer and the nearby radio shop was at a tower controlled airport (KAPC). We called the tower and they suggested that the glider land with the towplane that had a radio. I wasn't old enough to fly powerplanes yet so my father flew the towplane and I flew the glider. The airport was quite large and the flight was uneventful. Bottom line, it's not as scary as it sounds but I would suggest proper training before trying this on your own. Is anyone teaching this anymore? Barry |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
*Is anyone teaching this
anymore? Barry Sure. It's a good exercise for proficiency and confidence building. Touch and goes, taxiing and even turning at runway intersection to take off on a different runway. Good communication, experienced tow pilots, proper conditions, FUN! |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
In message
, Frank Whiteley writes snip I flew out to the left and waggled the wings, no response from the tow plane. Snip I had that when learning to give the cannot release signal - it left me wondering how much use it really is. BTW our tow plane has a retrieve winch on the rope plus a guillotine for cutting the rope as the release. -- Surfer! Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
Aside from the one anecdotal account in this thread, I don't recall that I
ever heard of a double failure, though doubtless it's happened somewhere at some time. So far as I know practicing landing on tow was never a requirement in any European country, though I believe it was in Australia at one time. We tried it a few times at Booker years back. As mentioned elsewhere, the glider goes into low-tow and lands before the tow-plane. Not that difficult but certainly not that safe and easy. I would expect a fair number of accidents to result if it was introduced as part of normal training and given that I'm not aware of any as a result of double failures clearly not worth the risk. At 01:05 08 September 2009, ZZ wrote: It is likely that the probability of an ACTUAL double release failure on tow is what ever positive number is closest to zero. Of course that doesn't mean that Mr.Murphy can't serve one of these up. I would be interested in hearing any accounts of actual, non-instructor induced double release failures which required either a landing on tow or purposely breaking he rope to end the problem. I would also be interested in any opinions regarding practicing landing on tow to prepare oneself for this unlikely event. (I know that this is or was a required maneuver in some European countries...but is it worth the risk?) Paul ZZ |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
On 8 Sep, 09:45, Chris Rollings wrote:
So far as I know practicing landing on tow was never a requirement in any European country, though I believe it was in Australia at one time. I was told that it was a mandatory part of training in France, and we certainly used to see it happen regularly at Le Blanc. However, I've just checked my 1991/2 editions of "Manuel de Pilote Vol à Voile" and "Réglementation de la Circulation Aérienne" (that's the official French gliding manual and a summary of the relevant laws) and can see no mention in either. Ian |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
We tried it a few times at Booker years back. *As mentioned elsewhere, the glider goes into low-tow and lands before the tow-plane. *Not that difficult but certainly not that safe and easy. * I tried it once, while at Tehachapi with no lift and nothing else to do. It was part of their training program. The glider stayed in high tow, not low. The thinking was, why do something unusual along with an emergency. Open spoilers, slip as necessary, follow the towplane down a shallow pattern, land normally, i.e. after the towplane. It was very uneventful, but an experienced towpilot and a long runway probably had a lot to do with that. John Cochrane BB |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Double Release Failure
I too remember being trained doing this maneuver in France. It was
called "retour au sol" (back to ground) You could always tell when someone was closed to solo, as this was part of the curriculum back then. You would open the speedbrakes full, drop down below the tow plane wake turbulence, and wait for the tow pilot do its thing. I do not remember being told that we could stall the glider on landing. Perhaps it was because you would need to close the speed brakes while flaring. You obviously don't need them full on very short final. Interestingly, I also learned this maneuver later on as a tow pilot itself. And let me tell you that this is where it is actually the most challenging! We had to remember that there was a glider below you, underneath that wake. So you would have to arrive much higher on final, even higher than when you are just returning with the rope only. Landing was uneventful, you would just have to remember to keep taxiing a bit long, to give enough room for the glider behind you to stop. It's not an necessarily an unsafe maneuver and I was surprised while flying in the US that a tow release failure is barely mentioned. Richard Phoenix,AZ |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
You (Double-A) broke it, so you fix it. | Michael Baldwin, Bruce | Products | 0 | November 30th 06 05:01 AM |
Double (or more) posting | flying_monkey | Soaring | 1 | September 1st 06 03:54 PM |
Double tow | [email protected] | Soaring | 2 | October 25th 05 07:16 PM |
Double Tow | Doug LS4 | Soaring | 5 | October 11th 05 02:37 AM |
Rare V-2 Double Launch Pic, WW2 | robert arndt | Military Aviation | 0 | July 8th 03 05:02 PM |