Married Couples and CRM (followon to Courious Crash)

What I am trying to understand is, how a husband and wife, both pilots,
would not challenge their spouse's decision to press a situation which
might lead to an uncertain outcome?

(Taking this thread into a new direction)
Ron and Margie, Jay and Mary, and the Tcraft couple are the only married
couples who use this forum that I am aware of.
Maybe there is a new thread, do spouses that fly together use a
challenge and response type of CRM when they fly together?
What type of resolution do they use?
If either one or the other expresses a concern, do they land and sort it
out?
Does one or the other have overriding veto?

the wife is always right lol.

john smith wrote:
What I am trying to understand is, how a husband and wife, both pilots,
would not challenge their spouse's decision to press a situation which
might lead to an uncertain outcome?

(Taking this thread into a new direction)
Ron and Margie, Jay and Mary, and the Tcraft couple are the only married
couples who use this forum that I am aware of.
Maybe there is a new thread, do spouses that fly together use a
challenge and response type of CRM when they fly together?
What type of resolution do they use?
If either one or the other expresses a concern, do they land and sort it
out?
Does one or the other have overriding veto?

Even though my wife does not have a pilot certificate, she does have an
amazing common sense. She is never reluctant to share it. She also
seems to have an uncanny knack for understanding most of the aviation
faux pas. If she catches me doing anything that "seems" out of place,
I hear about it immediately.

My opinion is that the level of feedback one spouse to another depends
more on the personality of the couples than it does on the formal
training of either. This would probably also be true of the cases
where two unrelated pilots get into trouble, or even a CFI and some
students.

tom

john smith wrote:
Maybe there is a new thread, do spouses that fly together use a
challenge and response type of CRM when they fly together?

john smith writes:

What I am trying to understand is, how a husband and wife, both pilots,
would not challenge their spouse's decision to press a situation which
might lead to an uncertain outcome?

I don't see why this would be any different from any two pilots who
have a personal bond with each other in addition to their piloting
association. The difference, if there is one, is merely one of degree
(most pilots don't love their co-pilots).

Beyond that, it's personality.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
john smith writes:

What I am trying to understand is, how a husband and wife, both pilots,
would not challenge their spouse's decision to press a situation which
might lead to an uncertain outcome?

I don't see why this would be any different from any two pilots who
have a personal bond with each other in addition to their piloting
association. The difference, if there is one, is merely one of degree
(most pilots don't love their co-pilots).

Ok, so we know that Mxsmanic isn't married.

-Robert

(Taking this thread into a new direction)
Ron and Margie, Jay and Mary, and the Tcraft couple are the only married
couples who use this forum that I am aware of.

Jim & Gail.


Maybe there is a new thread, do spouses that fly together use a challenge
and response type of CRM when they fly together?

That's generally the way our checklists are done.

What type of resolution do they use?

Depends on whose Palm we are using. Hers has a 640 x 480 screen.

If either one or the other expresses a concern, do they land and sort it
out?

Either one can say "I don't like this. Let's (a) not do it or (b) land and
think about it.

Does one or the other have overriding veto?

Absolutely not. EIther one can pull the plug at any time.

Jim

"john smith" wrote in message
...
What I am trying to understand is, how a husband and wife, both pilots,
would not challenge their spouse's decision to press a situation which
might lead to an uncertain outcome?

(Taking this thread into a new direction)
Ron and Margie, Jay and Mary, and the Tcraft couple are the only married
couples who use this forum that I am aware of.
Maybe there is a new thread, do spouses that fly together use a challenge
and response type of CRM when they fly together?
What type of resolution do they use?
If either one or the other expresses a concern, do they land and sort it
out?
Does one or the other have overriding veto?

As much as I personally dislike agreeing with Mxsmanic, his post in the
thread is exactly right.

This having been said, if ATC was screaming at me to turn left immediately
to avoid a 747 that I could actually see 500 yards directly ahead of me on a
collision course at co altitude and my wife sitting next to me who is non
rated told me at the exact same instant to continue flying straight on, by
the time common sense and a deep primal fear (both associated with the
ramifications of increased yard work that would most certainly be the result
if I ignored my wife) passed through my thought process, we would have hit
the 747 and the point of the initial poster's question would then be moot.
Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

"john smith" wrote in message
...
What I am trying to understand is, how a husband and wife, both pilots,
would not challenge their spouse's decision to press a situation which
might lead to an uncertain outcome?

(Taking this thread into a new direction)
Ron and Margie, Jay and Mary, and the Tcraft couple are the only married
couples who use this forum that I am aware of.
Maybe there is a new thread, do spouses that fly together use a challenge
and response type of CRM when they fly together?
What type of resolution do they use?
If either one or the other expresses a concern, do they land and sort it
out?
Does one or the other have overriding veto?

As much as I personally dislike agreeing with Mxsmanic, his post in the
thread is exactly right.

This having been said, if ATC was screaming at me to turn left immediately
to avoid a 747 that I could actually see 500 yards directly ahead of me on
a collision course at co altitude and my wife sitting next to me who is
non rated told me at the exact same instant to continue flying straight
on, by the time common sense and a deep primal fear (both associated with
the ramifications of increased yard work that would most certainly be the
result if I ignored my wife) passed through my thought process, we would
have hit the 747 and the point of the initial poster's question would then
be moot.
Dudley Henriques


So sayeth someone who OBVIOUSLY has been married to the same woman for MANY
years. :-)))))

Paul (who just celebrated his 50th anniversary with his bride in
September) --It took me about 30 seconds after I said "I do" to learn to say
"Yes Dear"!! Some lessons you never forget--thankfully!!! ))))

"Paul Riley" wrote in message
. net...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

"john smith" wrote in message
...
What I am trying to understand is, how a husband and wife, both pilots,
would not challenge their spouse's decision to press a situation which
might lead to an uncertain outcome?

(Taking this thread into a new direction)
Ron and Margie, Jay and Mary, and the Tcraft couple are the only married
couples who use this forum that I am aware of.
Maybe there is a new thread, do spouses that fly together use a
challenge and response type of CRM when they fly together?
What type of resolution do they use?
If either one or the other expresses a concern, do they land and sort it
out?
Does one or the other have overriding veto?

As much as I personally dislike agreeing with Mxsmanic, his post in the
thread is exactly right.

This having been said, if ATC was screaming at me to turn left
immediately to avoid a 747 that I could actually see 500 yards directly
ahead of me on a collision course at co altitude and my wife sitting next
to me who is non rated told me at the exact same instant to continue
flying straight on, by the time common sense and a deep primal fear (both
associated with the ramifications of increased yard work that would most
certainly be the result if I ignored my wife) passed through my thought
process, we would have hit the 747 and the point of the initial poster's
question would then be moot.
Dudley Henriques


So sayeth someone who OBVIOUSLY has been married to the same woman for
MANY years. :-)))))

Paul (who just celebrated his 50th anniversary with his bride in
September) --It took me about 30 seconds after I said "I do" to learn to
say "Yes Dear"!! Some lessons you never forget--thankfully!!! ))))


What I forgot to add was that my normal reactions would have already have me
in a steep bank avoiding the oncoming aircraft well before my bride's
comments reached my ears!! I suspect the same is true for Dudley!! :-))) In
which case, the discussion would continue!!! Followed by the "Yes Dear"
comment. :-)))))

Paul

Being a married man, you of course considered your wife's punishment first.
Is this a case of the known verses the possible outcome?
Would this be a fate worse than death? :-))

Dudley Henriques wrote:

"john smith" wrote in message
...


What I am trying to understand is, how a husband and wife, both pilots,
would not challenge their spouse's decision to press a situation which
might lead to an uncertain outcome?

(Taking this thread into a new direction)
Ron and Margie, Jay and Mary, and the Tcraft couple are the only married
couples who use this forum that I am aware of.
Maybe there is a new thread, do spouses that fly together use a challenge
and response type of CRM when they fly together?
What type of resolution do they use?
If either one or the other expresses a concern, do they land and sort it
out?
Does one or the other have overriding veto?



As much as I personally dislike agreeing with Mxsmanic, his post in the
thread is exactly right.

This having been said, if ATC was screaming at me to turn left immediately
to avoid a 747 that I could actually see 500 yards directly ahead of me on a
collision course at co altitude and my wife sitting next to me who is non
rated told me at the exact same instant to continue flying straight on, by
the time common sense and a deep primal fear (both associated with the
ramifications of increased yard work that would most certainly be the result
if I ignored my wife) passed through my thought process, we would have hit
the 747 and the point of the initial poster's question would then be moot.
Dudley Henriques