F-16 Encounters in MOA

Let's all remember that Anthony doesn't fly and never has. He has never
encountered the situation described, and certainly knows nothing about
flying procedures, let alone the military and their responsibilities.

If he were as smart as he thinks he is, he would be able to find a regular
job.

Mike wrote:

Not so. In Class B airspace you're separated from other traffic. In a
MOA you're simply provided advisories of observed traffic.


Yes, but not really. Check the separation standards for small VFR
aircraft in class bravo. It's practically non-existent. You get
half the IFR/IFR separation, but only if the other aircraft is
19,000 lbs. For smaller aircraft the standard is target resolution
which means you could practically reach out and touch one another. In ATC
lingo it's called "green-in-between".


Actually it's just "green between" in ATC lingo, but that's still
separation.

Let's all remember that the first guy that got bounced kept his mouth
shut until the second one, a lawyer, complained and said that he wanted
to file a complaint. Only then did the first pilot meekly chimed in that
he would also like to file a complaint.

If it wasn't for the people in the military, we wouldn't even have the
privilage or right to even be in the sky.

As long as there isn't a mid-air, fly the airplane and shut up.

On Jul 12, 7:31*am, "Viperdoc" wrote:
Let's all remember that Anthony doesn't fly and never has. He has never
encountered the situation described, and certainly knows nothing about
flying procedures, let alone the military and their responsibilities.

If he were as smart as he thinks he is, he would be able to find a regular
job.

None the less, formation flying with someone not skilled in the
discipline is not a good idea. If such procedures in joint use
airspace are sanctioned by higher authorities in the air force their
judgment has to be questioned. If the USAF pilot did this on his own
his judgment is in question, isn't it?

Simply because the jet jock has the skills to do something like that
safely does NOT mean he has the right to do it.

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 05:42:16 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Jul 12, 7:31*am, "Viperdoc" wrote:
Let's all remember that Anthony doesn't fly and never has. He has never
encountered the situation described, and certainly knows nothing about
flying procedures, let alone the military and their responsibilities.

If he were as smart as he thinks he is, he would be able to find a regular
job.

None the less, formation flying with someone not skilled in the
discipline is not a good idea. If such procedures in joint use
airspace are sanctioned by higher authorities in the air force their
judgment has to be questioned. If the USAF pilot did this on his own
his judgment is in question, isn't it?

Simply because the jet jock has the skills to do something like that
safely does NOT mean he has the right to do it.

yeah but where is your sense of humour.

I recall the story of the mil formation popping out in a cloud break
to see a civil bonanza up ahead. the story is that they rolled
inverted and went past the guy, vanishing into the wall of cloud
ahead. (whereupon they rolled back upright)
in the moments following there was a string of expletives over the
radio from the bonanza pilot as, thinking he was disoriented, he
rolled inverted only to see all the floor dust rise past him to the
windscreen above.

if that is more than an urban legend there is opportunity for truely
funny flypasts :-)

Stealth Pilot

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Robert M. Gary writes:

ATC has freq for both VHF and UHF. The civilian pilots were in contact
with ATC, the F-16 pilot elected to not be in contact with ATC.

Maybe the Air Force should elect to retire that pilot.


And put him on a desktop sim?


Bertie

They did not fly formation with the civilian pilot- it is not the normal
intercept procedure, and the differences in airspeed make it difficult.

The usual intent is to get the other pilot's attention, while the wingman
provides support and maintains visual contact. The civilian pilot has an
equal responsibility to see and avoid, and probably should be even more
attentive in an active MOA.

On Jul 12, 10:12*am, "Viperdoc" wrote:
They did not fly formation with the civilian pilot- it is not the normal
intercept procedure, and the differences in airspeed make it difficult.

The usual intent is to get the other pilot's attention, while the wingman
provides support and maintains visual contact. The civilian pilot has an
equal responsibility to see and avoid, and probably should be even more
attentive in an active MOA.

I submit the difference in airspeed and detection equipment puts the
tin can at a substantial disadvantage. If it's as the thread suggests,
the jet jock was playing games he should not have been. Sometimes USAF
pilots display inappropriate airmanship: this seems to be such a case.
Even good guys make mistakes: excepte me.

"JS" == John Smith writes:

JS If it wasn't for the people in the military, we wouldn't even
JS have the privilage or right to even be in the sky.

JS As long as there isn't a mid-air, fly the airplane and shut
JS up.

A good Tory you would have been in 1776.

I would have been the first to complain. Patriots don't shut up and
they don't worship the military or any other damn thing.
--
If you are ever skydiving, and your parachute fails, and your
friends are all watching youu fall, I think a good gag would be
to pretend you're swimming.
- Jack Handey

The pilot may well have made a bad decision- however, it is highly unlikely
that they were flying in formation with the civilian plane. As far as I
know, both pilots have an equal responsibility for see and avoid.