sunlight readable iphone

The nice thing about a touch screen is you do not have to touch it, use the input controls. But if you are in smooth air it might be easier to use the touch option.
On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 9:08:11 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:

Modern touchscreens do not affect screen brightness. Older/cheaper resistive technology used in PDAs such as the Oudie 2 had a separate overlay for the touchscreen with an air gap. All modern smartphones have in-panel capacitive touch sensors, it is built into the display glass as an integral part.. I do not know what Air uses on their L display (the M is not touch sensitive). A touch screen does not work as well with an in-panel display in my opinion, because touch accuracy is required at arm's length. If the display is mounted on a stalk or RAM type mount, the display can be grasped by the thumb and 4th & 5th finger, and accurate touches (including multitouches) used even in rough air because your hand is anchored to the display.

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 9:08:11 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 12:00:49 AM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
On Sunday, 24 September 2017 18:04:11 UTC+3, jfitch wrote:

I do not recognize SYM from this description. Tiny buttons, too long manual, modal wtf, annual license? We are talking about highly complex problems (AAT optimization etc.) that need complex software. You read manual, learn program and that's it, I do not have to read manual before every flight. Talking about iGlide is useless, you cannot buy a device that runs it and is adequately readable in cockpit. There is no iGlide option for glider use.

I take it then, that you have flown at least 10 cross country flights using iGlide and found it wanting?

I have flown at least that many with all of the software packages I have described. I find iGlide to be "adequately readable" in the cockpit. It is as readable in most situations as the Oudie 2. I know because I have flown a number of flights with both, mounted side-by-side. Have you?

I dont do apple even if forced, so no would be the answer. But apple uses same display tech as everyone else, and you only need to take the Oudie2/IGC with any other high-end smartphone and walk out to direct sunlight to make my point. If holding a mirror that has extremely dark screen does not disturb you at all, congrats, you can fly with any device.

I did not know that Air Display M/L runs iGlide, they do not state that anywhere in documentation. Most of the panel mounted computers have decent or even good (matte) screens, but AFAIK Air is the only one with touchscreen. Touchscreen robs some of the screen brightness so it is not used much, too bad. I do not have experience with L/M, and what is the maturity of their software.

Modern touchscreens do not affect screen brightness. Older/cheaper resistive technology used in PDAs such as the Oudie 2 had a separate overlay for the touchscreen with an air gap. All modern smartphones have in-panel capacitive touch sensors, it is built into the display glass as an integral part.. I do not know what Air uses on their L display (the M is not touch sensitive). A touch screen does not work as well with an in-panel display in my opinion, because touch accuracy is required at arm's length. If the display is mounted on a stalk or RAM type mount, the display can be grasped by the thumb and 4th & 5th finger, and accurate touches (including multitouches) used even in rough air because your hand is anchored to the display.

The Display L is absolutely excellent in the SUN quite unlike any phones. It is as good a my Ultimate and Ultimate Le that is controlled by a ball track mouse.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

I was there at the very beginning when the ClearNav idea began to gel. On a particular flight, one (or both - I can't remember) of us were crossing the Susquehanna river on a ridge mission trying to punch the next turnpoints using our Compaq Aeros running Glide Navigator. Mine suddenly froze up after I incorrectly punched a menu item instead of the waypoint. That same day I believe Kellerman threatened to toss his Compaq out the apple core window for a similar reason.

So yes, usability in rough air, especially mountain/ridge environments led to the strong preference for a remote control rather than touch screen.

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 11:24:04 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Slightly off topic (what else is new), but ClearNav specifically stated
that they rejected touch screens because of the difficulty of touching a
moving spot in turbulent air.Â* I've noticed that quite often using my
actually sunlight readable mini tablet running a different program...Â*
Using a stick mounted or hand held controller makes the problem of
operating the application trivial (after you've learned how to use the
software).

On 9/25/2017 1:00 AM, krasw wrote:
On Sunday, 24 September 2017 18:04:11 UTC+3, jfitch wrote:
I do not recognize SYM from this description. Tiny buttons, too long manual, modal wtf, annual license? We are talking about highly complex problems (AAT optimization etc.) that need complex software. You read manual, learn program and that's it, I do not have to read manual before every flight. Talking about iGlide is useless, you cannot buy a device that runs it and is adequately readable in cockpit. There is no iGlide option for glider use.
I take it then, that you have flown at least 10 cross country flights using iGlide and found it wanting?

I have flown at least that many with all of the software packages I have described. I find iGlide to be "adequately readable" in the cockpit. It is as readable in most situations as the Oudie 2. I know because I have flown a number of flights with both, mounted side-by-side. Have you?
I dont do apple even if forced, so no would be the answer. But apple uses same display tech as everyone else, and you only need to take the Oudie2/IGC with any other high-end smartphone and walk out to direct sunlight to make my point. If holding a mirror that has extremely dark screen does not disturb you at all, congrats, you can fly with any device.

I did not know that Air Display M/L runs iGlide, they do not state that anywhere in documentation. Most of the panel mounted computers have decent or even good (matte) screens, but AFAIK Air is the only one with touchscreen. Touchscreen robs some of the screen brightness so it is not used much, too bad. I do not have experience with L/M, and what is the maturity of their software.

--
Dan, 5J

krasw wrote on 9/25/2017 12:00 AM:
But apple uses same display tech as everyone else, and you only need to take the Oudie2/IGC with any other high-end smartphone and walk out to direct sunlight to make my point.

Actually, it doesn't make your point. When I take my iPhone 6 running iGlide
outside, it looks good. When I use it in my glider (two seasons now), it looks
good. My other glider has a CN 1, which was originally in the glider where I now
use iGlide/iPhone, and it looks good, too.

Why are you so reluctant to believe people using iPhones can read them
satisfactorily in the cockpit?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

On Tuesday, 26 September 2017 01:11:05 UTC+3, Eric Greenwell wrote:
krasw wrote on 9/25/2017 12:00 AM:
But apple uses same display tech as everyone else, and you only need to take the Oudie2/IGC with any other high-end smartphone and walk out to direct sunlight to make my point.

Actually, it doesn't make your point. When I take my iPhone 6 running iGlide
outside, it looks good. When I use it in my glider (two seasons now), it looks
good. My other glider has a CN 1, which was originally in the glider where I now
use iGlide/iPhone, and it looks good, too.

Why are you so reluctant to believe people using iPhones can read them
satisfactorily in the cockpit?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

Because the displays suck so massively. But let's not waste any more breath, obviously there are pilots who don't like glossy smartphone displays in cockpit, and those who don't mind that at all. Out of my gliding friends 99% falls into first category. Testing your preferences is one of simplest things, just download app and use it in sunlight, there is really little to discuss about this.

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 11:23:41 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 September 2017 01:11:05 UTC+3, Eric Greenwell wrote:
krasw wrote on 9/25/2017 12:00 AM:
But apple uses same display tech as everyone else, and you only need to take the Oudie2/IGC with any other high-end smartphone and walk out to direct sunlight to make my point.

Actually, it doesn't make your point. When I take my iPhone 6 running iGlide
outside, it looks good. When I use it in my glider (two seasons now), it looks
good. My other glider has a CN 1, which was originally in the glider where I now
use iGlide/iPhone, and it looks good, too.

Why are you so reluctant to believe people using iPhones can read them
satisfactorily in the cockpit?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf

Because the displays suck so massively. But let's not waste any more breath, obviously there are pilots who don't like glossy smartphone displays in cockpit, and those who don't mind that at all. Out of my gliding friends 99% falls into first category. Testing your preferences is one of simplest things, just download app and use it in sunlight, there is really little to discuss about this.

Trying it is a good suggestion - however try it with one of the latest phones, not your old Motorola flip phone. Display brightness has nearly doubled in the latest generation over the previous. The Galaxy Note8 was independently tested at over 1200 nits - that is as bright or brighter than dedicated nav displays. We are waiting to see if Apple will do the same things with the same display technology.

Just read today that the iPhone 10 will use OLED displays purchased from Samsung. Therefore don't expect miracles. They won't be any better than Samsung.

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 5:35:55 PM UTC-7, Soartech wrote:
Just read today that the iPhone 10 will use OLED displays purchased from Samsung. Therefore don't expect miracles. They won't be any better than Samsung.

True - but Samsung OLED phones are capable of 1000 - 1200 nits, nearly double the peak brightness of the LCD based iPhone 6 and 7. Which some of us were able to read without a lot of issues. These displays can be driven quite bright, the OS decides how bright. Samsung made the choice to limit the manually controlled brightness to about 650 nits, to maintain battery life. However if you put the phone in the Auto brightness mode, it will peak the brightness to over 1000 nits in high ambient light (the Apple LCD phones have this behavior too, but are limited by the backlight). Some people may be mistakenly thinking they want the brightness set on manual at maximum - this may not result in the highest brightness, depending on the phone. By not allowing you to park the brightness at the true maximum, the manufacturers can turn it down when you walk into a building, and lower the incidence of battery life complaints.

On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 9:30:02 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 5:35:55 PM UTC-7, Soartech wrote:
Just read today that the iPhone 10 will use OLED displays purchased from Samsung. Therefore don't expect miracles. They won't be any better than Samsung.

True - but Samsung OLED phones are capable of 1000 - 1200 nits, nearly double the peak brightness of the LCD based iPhone 6 and 7. Which some of us were able to read without a lot of issues. These displays can be driven quite bright, the OS decides how bright. Samsung made the choice to limit the manually controlled brightness to about 650 nits, to maintain battery life. However if you put the phone in the Auto brightness mode, it will peak the brightness to over 1000 nits in high ambient light (the Apple LCD phones have this behavior too, but are limited by the backlight). Some people may be mistakenly thinking they want the brightness set on manual at maximum - this may not result in the highest brightness, depending on the phone. By not allowing you to park the brightness at the true maximum, the manufacturers can turn it down when you walk into a building, and lower the incidence of battery life complaints.

The first reviews are starting to be posted about the iPhone X and sunlight readability. The results look quite hopeful. One reviewer says, "view-ability is insane in the sun — much, much better than the iPhone 8 LCD" and the iPhone 8 was already decent. Another measured the brightness compared with a Samsung Note 8 (supposed to be the king of brightness) and concluded the X was 40% brighter than the 8. It is a tricky subject when talking about OLED displays, because unlike an LCD each pixel can be driven to a different level. How you measure it can be deceiving. These same reviewers also found it to be subjectively better: "To get a better read on each phone, I enlisted the help of a few of my colleagues. The first thing they all pointed out was just how bright the iPhone X’s 5.8-inch display gets in comparison to its Android-powered rivals." The rivals being the Note 8 and Pixel2 XL.

Some have claimed that Apple is buying Samsung floor sweeping displays or some such. Now that more information has come out, we know that the X display was specifically designed for Apple to Apple's specs, and is driven by an Apple designed driver. It is not the same as Samsung's current or past phones. In fact someone has plausibly calculated that Samsung will make more - far more - selling OLED displays to Apple than they will make on their entire cell phone business.

On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 10:16:49 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 9:30:02 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 5:35:55 PM UTC-7, Soartech wrote:
Just read today that the iPhone 10 will use OLED displays purchased from Samsung. Therefore don't expect miracles. They won't be any better than Samsung.

True - but Samsung OLED phones are capable of 1000 - 1200 nits, nearly double the peak brightness of the LCD based iPhone 6 and 7. Which some of us were able to read without a lot of issues. These displays can be driven quite bright, the OS decides how bright. Samsung made the choice to limit the manually controlled brightness to about 650 nits, to maintain battery life. However if you put the phone in the Auto brightness mode, it will peak the brightness to over 1000 nits in high ambient light (the Apple LCD phones have this behavior too, but are limited by the backlight). Some people may be mistakenly thinking they want the brightness set on manual at maximum - this may not result in the highest brightness, depending on the phone. By not allowing you to park the brightness at the true maximum, the manufacturers can turn it down when you walk into a building, and lower the incidence of battery life complaints.

The first reviews are starting to be posted about the iPhone X and sunlight readability. The results look quite hopeful. One reviewer says, "view-ability is insane in the sun — much, much better than the iPhone 8 LCD" and the iPhone 8 was already decent. Another measured the brightness compared with a Samsung Note 8 (supposed to be the king of brightness) and concluded the X was 40% brighter than the 8. It is a tricky subject when talking about OLED displays, because unlike an LCD each pixel can be driven to a different level. How you measure it can be deceiving. These same reviewers also found it to be subjectively better: "To get a better read on each phone, I enlisted the help of a few of my colleagues. The first thing they all pointed out was just how bright the iPhone X’s 5.8-inch display gets in comparison to its Android-powered rivals." The rivals being the Note 8 and Pixel2 XL.

Some have claimed that Apple is buying Samsung floor sweeping displays or some such. Now that more information has come out, we know that the X display was specifically designed for Apple to Apple's specs, and is driven by an Apple designed driver. It is not the same as Samsung's current or past phones. In fact someone has plausibly calculated that Samsung will make more - far more - selling OLED displays to Apple than they will make on their entire cell phone business.

Are you coming to the PASCO meeting on Saturday? Can we look at your iPhone X then? :-)