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Borgelt Dynamis variometer



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 18th 19, 08:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Borgelt Dynamis variometer

As Mike mentioned, horizontal gusts are usually most disturbing while cruising at higher speeds and entering thermals. The AirGlide S and the ClearNav-Vario are both using ADC derived data to calculate vertical air mass movement. From my experience, it takes some time to find the right setup for these filters. But once that is done, they do a good job in removing horizontal gusts. But they are only working in cruise mode. Perhaps Dynamis uses them in climb mode as well - although the problem of horizontal gusts is most relevant while cruising at high speeds, i.e. in cruise mode.

Mike has every reason to be proud of his new product and it certainly was a great effort to get there. But it is not the first and only vario on the market using such filters.

Cheers
Christoph
  #12  
Old March 18th 19, 08:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Borgelt Dynamis variometer

On Monday, March 18, 2019 at 7:01:23 PM UTC, wrote:
As Mike mentioned, horizontal gusts are usually most disturbing while cruising at higher speeds and entering thermals. The AirGlide S and the ClearNav-Vario are both using ADC derived data to calculate vertical air mass movement. From my experience, it takes some time to find the right setup for these filters. But once that is done, they do a good job in removing horizontal gusts. But they are only working in cruise mode. Perhaps Dynamis uses them in climb mode as well - although the problem of horizontal gusts is most relevant while cruising at high speeds, i.e. in cruise mode.

Mike has every reason to be proud of his new product and it certainly was a great effort to get there. But it is not the first and only vario on the market using such filters.

Cheers
Christoph


The only thing I am aware of that MB has said about how the Dynamis works is that it is not by means of filters, specifically, from his Dynamis article:

"It is not a filtering problem as the vertical and horizontal motion occurs on the same time scales and has similar magnitude, making filters useless.."
  #13  
Old March 19th 19, 07:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Default Borgelt Dynamis variometer

On Monday, March 18, 2019 at 12:42:46 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2019 at 7:01:23 PM UTC, wrote:
As Mike mentioned, horizontal gusts are usually most disturbing while cruising at higher speeds and entering thermals. The AirGlide S and the ClearNav-Vario are both using ADC derived data to calculate vertical air mass movement. From my experience, it takes some time to find the right setup for these filters. But once that is done, they do a good job in removing horizontal gusts. But they are only working in cruise mode. Perhaps Dynamis uses them in climb mode as well - although the problem of horizontal gusts is most relevant while cruising at high speeds, i.e. in cruise mode.

Mike has every reason to be proud of his new product and it certainly was a great effort to get there. But it is not the first and only vario on the market using such filters.

Cheers
Christoph


The only thing I am aware of that MB has said about how the Dynamis works is that it is not by means of filters, specifically, from his Dynamis article:

"It is not a filtering problem as the vertical and horizontal motion occurs on the same time scales and has similar magnitude, making filters useless."


Don't expect Mike to give you any REAL clues on how his systems works; after all, it is his trade secret. In fact, he may give you false clues to throw you off! One thing I would like to know, however, is the price of the system (that shouldn't be a trade secret).

Tom
  #14  
Old March 20th 19, 10:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nick[_5_]
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Default Borgelt Dynamis variometer

What is ADC derived data?

On Monday, 18 March 2019 19:01:23 UTC, wrote:
As Mike mentioned, horizontal gusts are usually most disturbing while cruising at higher speeds and entering thermals. The AirGlide S and the ClearNav-Vario are both using ADC derived data to calculate vertical air mass movement. From my experience, it takes some time to find the right setup for these filters. But once that is done, they do a good job in removing horizontal gusts. But they are only working in cruise mode. Perhaps Dynamis uses them in climb mode as well - although the problem of horizontal gusts is most relevant while cruising at high speeds, i.e. in cruise mode.

Mike has every reason to be proud of his new product and it certainly was a great effort to get there. But it is not the first and only vario on the market using such filters.

Cheers
Christoph


  #15  
Old March 20th 19, 11:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default Borgelt Dynamis variometer

Data derived from the Air Data Computer, part of the vario system which
has accelerometers, gps, pitot, static, total energy, and probably other
stuff.

On 3/20/2019 3:10 PM, Nick wrote:
What is ADC derived data?

On Monday, 18 March 2019 19:01:23 UTC, wrote:
As Mike mentioned, horizontal gusts are usually most disturbing while cruising at higher speeds and entering thermals. The AirGlide S and the ClearNav-Vario are both using ADC derived data to calculate vertical air mass movement. From my experience, it takes some time to find the right setup for these filters. But once that is done, they do a good job in removing horizontal gusts. But they are only working in cruise mode. Perhaps Dynamis uses them in climb mode as well - although the problem of horizontal gusts is most relevant while cruising at high speeds, i.e. in cruise mode.

Mike has every reason to be proud of his new product and it certainly was a great effort to get there. But it is not the first and only vario on the market using such filters.

Cheers
Christoph


--
Dan, 5J
  #16  
Old March 21st 19, 09:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nick[_5_]
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Default Borgelt Dynamis variometer

Thanks.

There are standard algorithms such as Kalman filters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensor_fusion

For example you could dead reckon from ASI, accelerators and gyros. It would drift over time, because its an integration. Combine that however with GPS, altimeter, etc, and you can end up with a system that has lower errors.

Gusts in one way, are just noise, and approaches like Kalman filters work well at eliminating noise. So if you fly into a horizontal gust, you get a change in ASI, but no appreciable longitudinal acceleration.
  #17  
Old March 21st 19, 11:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Borgelt Dynamis variometer

On Thursday, March 21, 2019 at 8:58:32 PM UTC, Nick wrote:
Thanks.

There are standard algorithms such as Kalman filters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensor_fusion

For example you could dead reckon from ASI, accelerators and gyros. It would drift over time, because its an integration. Combine that however with GPS, altimeter, etc, and you can end up with a system that has lower errors..

Gusts in one way, are just noise, and approaches like Kalman filters work well at eliminating noise. So if you fly into a horizontal gust, you get a change in ASI, but no appreciable longitudinal acceleration.


Nick, that approach sounds plausible and is very different from the simple pneumatic or internal electronic signal damping "gust filters" we use now. I can only imagine that the sensor fusion hardware you give a link to would need to be a bit more sophisticated than the MEMS chips in current vario/nav systems.
  #18  
Old March 22nd 19, 12:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nick[_5_]
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Default Borgelt Dynamis variometer

On the mems devices if you have played with them, are pretty standard.

Compasses have errors. The 3 axes are not always at 90 degrees. The center is not necessarily at 50%, and each axis may be scaled differently. It's quite straight forward to turn this ellipsoid into a unit sphere. That's just the calibration.

Same applies for accelerators. You can rotate and hold still to get the calibration.

Gyros are odd. They suffer the same but they drift over time, so you need to adjust for the drift. But over a short period they are good.

GPS is accurate certainly over long periods.

From what I know, TE and ASI, along with altimeters are noisy measuring devices. Noise changes pressure, and hence you get a random change in altimeter. Not sure how they are affected by temperature.

So what do you want to measure?

1. The orientation of the glider - bank, pitch and direction
2. It's velocity
3. It's acceleration
4. The vector of the air. Wind speed + vertical
5. Conceivably, slip.

6. Flaps
7. Conceivably even the control movements.

That should give you a good model, and you should be able to fit from that.

It is what the AHRS systems use anyway, for a subset. See the Madwick system

http://x-io.co.uk/open-source-imu-and-ahrs-algorithms/
  #19  
Old March 25th 19, 12:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Borgelt Dynamis variometer

On Tuesday, March 19, 2019 at 7:15:55 AM UTC+1, 2G wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2019 at 12:42:46 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, March 18, 2019 at 7:01:23 PM UTC, wrote:
As Mike mentioned, horizontal gusts are usually most disturbing while cruising at higher speeds and entering thermals. The AirGlide S and the ClearNav-Vario are both using ADC derived data to calculate vertical air mass movement. From my experience, it takes some time to find the right setup for these filters. But once that is done, they do a good job in removing horizontal gusts. But they are only working in cruise mode. Perhaps Dynamis uses them in climb mode as well - although the problem of horizontal gusts is most relevant while cruising at high speeds, i.e. in cruise mode.

Mike has every reason to be proud of his new product and it certainly was a great effort to get there. But it is not the first and only vario on the market using such filters.

Cheers
Christoph


The only thing I am aware of that MB has said about how the Dynamis works is that it is not by means of filters, specifically, from his Dynamis article:

"It is not a filtering problem as the vertical and horizontal motion occurs on the same time scales and has similar magnitude, making filters useless."


Don't expect Mike to give you any REAL clues on how his systems works; after all, it is his trade secret. In fact, he may give you false clues to throw you off! One thing I would like to know, however, is the price of the system (that shouldn't be a trade secret).

Tom


Why not explain how and why it works?
This makes me a bit sceptical. Is there a patent application pending?
Looking at the videos, I can't see any difference that can't be explained by a longer integration time.
  #20  
Old March 25th 19, 01:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie Quebec
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Posts: 253
Default Borgelt Dynamis variometer

Yeh why not give away the fruits of many years of research, so others can copy it, sounds like a great idea to promote your business.
 




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