Anyone keeping a fabric plane in the open?

Ok, I know the received wisdom that a fabric plane shouldn't be kept
in the open and should always be hangared.

But, I started to question this after noticing several fabric planes
in the open at my home airport. They look in better shape than the
metal winged planes sometimes. I also know that the newer fabrics
(Ceconite and others) last much longer than the old cotton. And that
UV resistants in paint help more.

Anyone really doing this? What are the results on your plane? Any
A&Ps seen results from outside fabric?

Thanks,
-Malcolm Teas

In article ,
(Malcolm Teas) wrote:

Ok, I know the received wisdom that a fabric plane shouldn't be kept
in the open and should always be hangared.

But, I started to question this after noticing several fabric planes
in the open at my home airport. They look in better shape than the
metal winged planes sometimes. I also know that the newer fabrics
(Ceconite and others) last much longer than the old cotton. And that
UV resistants in paint help more.

Anyone really doing this? What are the results on your plane? Any
A&Ps seen results from outside fabric?

There are very few hangars available here in Anchorage....however there
are scores of fabric airplanes sitting out in the weather all year long.
Doesn't seem to be a big problem.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

On 21 May 2004 07:42:56 -0700, (Malcolm Teas)
wrote:

Ok, I know the received wisdom that a fabric plane shouldn't be kept
in the open and should always be hangared.

But, I started to question this after noticing several fabric planes
in the open at my home airport. They look in better shape than the
metal winged planes sometimes. I also know that the newer fabrics
(Ceconite and others) last much longer than the old cotton. And that
UV resistants in paint help more.

Anyone really doing this? What are the results on your plane? Any
A&Ps seen results from outside fabric?

Thanks,
-Malcolm Teas


The new processes definately work better than when cotton was used.
From experience I can say that the "Ceconite" process (using nitrate
and buterate) does not last as long as the "Stits" process. I'd
estimate that with Ceconite you'd get about 10-12 years out of a
fabric job if its kept outside 24/7/365. I've seen airplanes done
with Stits that are 10 years old and look brand new.

The amount of life you get will also depend on how sunny your climate
is, etc...

Just to be clear the actual fabric used is the same for each process.
How the fabric is treated is where the differences come into play.

HTH.
z

(Malcolm Teas) wrote in message . com...
Ok, I know the received wisdom that a fabric plane shouldn't be kept
in the open and should always be hangared.

But, I started to question this after noticing several fabric planes
in the open at my home airport. They look in better shape than the
metal winged planes sometimes. I also know that the newer fabrics
(Ceconite and others) last much longer than the old cotton. And that
UV resistants in paint help more.

Anyone really doing this? What are the results on your plane? Any
A&Ps seen results from outside fabric?

Thanks,
-Malcolm Teas

My Tri-Pacer sat outside for the first 16 years I owned it as well as
6 years before that. Fabric was replaced at 22 or 23 years. Most of
that time it was in New Mexico where moisture was low and sunlight was
intense.

--
Gene Seibel
Tri-Pacer - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane2.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

Modern fabrics are very durable, althought the finishes vary. Depending
upon your climate, I would be more concerned about the potential for
rusting of structural tubing if water gets in. Also sunlight can really do
a lot of damage to the interior. A good set of covers might be a good
investment if you are going to store outside.

The final condition of my Champ purchase a few years back was that I had to
be able to locate hangar space. I wouldn't keep any plane outside, but
hangar rental here is reasonable (in airplane dollars :-) ... however, I
have seen hangar rental rates quoted for some markets (usually near large
US cities) that must exceed the increased depreciation resulting from
outdoor storage.

Rob

(Malcolm Teas) wrote in
om:

Ok, I know the received wisdom that a fabric plane shouldn't be kept
in the open and should always be hangared.

But, I started to question this after noticing several fabric planes
in the open at my home airport. They look in better shape than the
metal winged planes sometimes. I also know that the newer fabrics
(Ceconite and others) last much longer than the old cotton. And that
UV resistants in paint help more.

Anyone really doing this? What are the results on your plane? Any
A&Ps seen results from outside fabric?

Thanks,
-Malcolm Teas



--

Malcolm Teas wrote:

Anyone really doing this? What are the results on your plane? Any
A&Ps seen results from outside fabric?

I've had my Maule outside since I bought it in 1995. Since Maule did not paint
aircraft properly back then, it really isn't a fair test case. I've had to repair one
crack in the fabric caused by a run in the paint and repair a popped tape in the
fabric caused by the fact that Maule used enamel for the finish coats on top of the
silver layer.

Ceconite and Polyfiber (which are the same fabric but different application methods)
both last pretty much forever outside.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

(Malcolm Teas) wrote in message . com...
...But, I started to question this after noticing several fabric
planes
in the open at my home airport. ...

Ok, so outside in Alaska, a Maule outside since 1995, a Pacer outside
for 16 years. Sounds good!

But the finishes vary. How do they vary: Stits is better than
Ceconite, but why? Better UV protection or just better resistance to
the weather in general?

Also, any good recomendations for covers? I'd like to cover my whole
prospective plane when I find it.

Thanks,
-Malcolm Teas

I bought my citabria last september. It was recovered, ceconite, 11
years ago. It has been outside, Philadelphia area, since then. The red
paint has faded from the sun. The underside of things hasn't faded at
all. I tried a fairly mild polishing compound on it but for the most
part that wasn't very helpful. I guess the polish really can't dig in
because the fabric flexes too much. On the leading edges, which are
rigid, however it worked well. I was going to try 1000 grit paper but a
fabric guy told me that they could try a rejuvinator on it. I don't
know what that is exactly but I understand it's a type of paint thinner
or dope. I'm taking it in for a small patch over a rivet next month so
I'll learn more then.

No question that a good hanger will help. I've heard that a damp hanger
can be worse than outdoor tiedowns.

Dave
68 7ECA

Malcolm Teas wrote:
Ok, I know the received wisdom that a fabric plane shouldn't be kept
in the open and should always be hangared.

But, I started to question this after noticing several fabric planes
in the open at my home airport. They look in better shape than the
metal winged planes sometimes. I also know that the newer fabrics
(Ceconite and others) last much longer than the old cotton. And that
UV resistants in paint help more.

Anyone really doing this? What are the results on your plane? Any
A&Ps seen results from outside fabric?

Thanks,
-Malcolm Teas

Malcolm Teas wrote:

But the finishes vary. How do they vary: Stits is better than
Ceconite, but why?

Stits is also called Polyfiber. Ceconite and Polyfiber are the same fabric, made in
the same plant, on the same looms, by the same manufacturer. There is absolutely no
difference. The methods of application and the finishes used differ, however. The
Ceconite method is to glue the fabric on with a Randolph product, then shrink it with
heat, and then use other Randolph products to finish it through the silver coat. The
Stits method does not specify the brand of the finish. I'm not sure if it uses heat
to shrink the fabric either.

The Randolph company was just purchased by the company that makes Ceconite and
Polyfiber. It will be interesting to see what effect this has on the published
covering methods.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

dave wrote:

I was going to try 1000 grit paper but a
fabric guy told me that they could try a rejuvinator on it.

Rejuvenator is a solvent that softens butyrate dope.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.