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What to do with L-13?



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 4th 12, 02:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
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Posts: 746
Default What to do with L-13?

Tim,

Steve Northcraft has done and is doing a superb job as the SSA's point
man on the L-13. He's spent a huge amount of time working with the
FAA to find a solution owners can live with. I'm sure he would like
nothing better than to be able to announce a solution which would make
everyone happy.

The L-13 wasn't grounded because of some bureaucratic bungling. There
are very real and serious structural problems with the wing. These
problems require an engineering solution proven to be safe. The L-13
has a standard airworthiness certificate and any fix must completely
restore the aircraft to that standard. Simply splicing in some more
metal and hope it works isn't an option. That's what you get with a
standard airworthiness certificate.

The problem isn't just coming up with a well engineered a solution,
that can be done. It's coming up with one which is economically
feasible for a 50 year old glider which will be worth only around
$12,000 after it's fixed - a $15,000 fix for a $12,000 glider is a non-
starter. That's a very tough nut to crack since the paperwork alone
is likely to cost that much. It's possible, even probable, no such
solution can be found. There is no SSA political action which can, or
should, overcome that. Unfortunately, the L-13's, like the war
surplus wooden trainers of the 1950's, may be history.

I agree that losing over 180 L-13 trainers hit the US soaring movement
hard. In the same time period, the fleet of 2-33's has dropped to 131
active gliders, probably due to age. It appears we have half as many
airworthy trainers today as we did 50 years ago. Today, right now, we
need at least 300 new trainers and if the LetsGoGliding program really
takes off, we could need 400.

If someone is thinking of backing a US glider manufacturer, now would
be the time.

Bill Daniels





On May 3, 5:16*pm, "Tim Mara" wrote:
What ever became of our SSA and the "government liaison and support we pay
so dearly for with the high dues and fees?
Isn't this what we all belong for? where is their support and chain rattling
with the FAA to get this issue resolved?
tim

wrote in message

news:8062526.4081.1336051011893.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbkv21...
Our club (NJ - USA) has folded and we still have an L-13 taking up space.
Before I call the local scrap yard I thought I'd ask if anyone might be
interested in buying it at scrap value with the dreams of getting airworthy
again. We also have an open trailer for it that will be available separately
if the bird goes to the junk yard. mikefaddenathotmail.com.


  #12  
Old May 4th 12, 02:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
ASM
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Posts: 79
Default What to do with L-13?

On Thursday, May 3, 2012 6:16:51 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Our club (NJ - USA) has folded and we still have an L-13 taking up space. Before I call the local scrap yard I thought I'd ask if anyone might be interested in buying it at scrap value with the dreams of getting airworthy again. We also have an open trailer for it that will be available separately if the bird goes to the junk yard. mikefaddenathotmail.com.


Possibility: http://soaringcafe.com/2012/04/world...ilplanes-dead/
  #13  
Old May 4th 12, 03:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
T[_2_]
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Posts: 187
Default What to do with L-13?

On May 3, 11:06*am, Hartley Falbaum wrote:
On May 3, 10:19*am, Evan Ludeman wrote:

Giant scale RC.


"No sir, that's a *model* you saw flying last weekend. *Yes, indeed we
do tow it with an L-19 and we used to use it as a sailplane, but it's
just an RC model now. *Oh, the radio gear and servos go home with one
of the club members. *Yes, we've kept the *cockpit original for
realism and old time's sake. *No, of course I can't show you how the
servos hook up, that's proprietary to the guy that built them. *No,
absolutely we won't show you, this isn't a a civil aircraft any
longer, it's just a model. *No, my lawyer says we don't have to... you
don't have jurisdiction over models."


:-)


T8


Hmmmmm!
Does the FAA have jurisdiction over UAVs or is it DOD?


Civil UAV, FAA has jurisdiction, an airworthy certificate, redundant
controls are currently required.
An RC private modeler? The AMA has recommend guidelines, that the FAA
accepts.
And FAA or I should say Homeland Security, still grounds RC models
with TFRs.

T
  #14  
Old May 4th 12, 03:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
T[_2_]
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Posts: 187
Default What to do with L-13?

On May 3, 6:16*am, wrote:
Our club (NJ - USA) has folded and we still have an L-13 taking up space. Before I call the local scrap yard I thought I'd ask if anyone might be interested in buying it at scrap value with the dreams of getting airworthy again. We also have an open trailer for it that will be available separately if the bird goes to the junk yard. mikefaddenathotmail.com.


Offer it to the airport to mount on a stick for a wind sock.
(tetrahedron)
  #15  
Old May 4th 12, 03:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Blue Whale
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Posts: 19
Default What to do with L-13?

On May 3, 10:24*pm, T wrote:
On May 3, 6:16*am, wrote:

Our club (NJ - USA) has folded and we still have an L-13 taking up space. Before I call the local scrap yard I thought I'd ask if anyone might be interested in buying it at scrap value with the dreams of getting airworthy again. We also have an open trailer for it that will be available separately if the bird goes to the junk yard. mikefaddenathotmail.com.


Offer it to the airport to mount on a stick for a wind sock.
(tetrahedron)


See how many you can fit into a container and then ship them to
Australia?
  #16  
Old May 4th 12, 04:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Posts: 2,099
Default What to do with L-13?

On Thursday, May 3, 2012 10:33:42 AM UTC-6, soartech wrote:
Open up the wing, wrap the spar with Kevlar and carbon fiber/epoxy and
carbon rod top and bottom.
Lots of info on this at many web sites. Reassemble the wing. Do a 10G
sandbag test.
Document everything and ask for an experimental certificate from your
local FAA.
Or call it an L-13plus and go fly.


I think an easier major modification towards an experimental certificate might be struts (which I suggested to MM long ago and was also suggest by some gent in Brazil).

It actually might look okay with struts;^)
  #17  
Old May 4th 12, 04:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
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Posts: 746
Default What to do with L-13?

On May 3, 9:25*pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Thursday, May 3, 2012 10:33:42 AM UTC-6, soartech wrote:
Open up the wing, wrap the spar with Kevlar and carbon fiber/epoxy and
carbon rod top and bottom.
Lots of info on this at many web sites. Reassemble the wing. Do a 10G
sandbag test.
Document everything and ask for an experimental certificate from your
local FAA.
Or call it an L-13plus and go fly.


I think an easier major modification towards an experimental certificate might be struts (which I suggested to MM long ago and was also suggest by some gent in Brazil).

It actually might look okay with struts;^)


I think someone else said the FAA isn't going to allow an 'end run'
around the AD by converting it to an Experimental Airworthiness
Certificate - even with struts slapped on.
  #18  
Old May 4th 12, 04:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Posts: 2,099
Default What to do with L-13?

On Thursday, May 3, 2012 9:34:28 PM UTC-6, Bill D wrote:
On May 3, 9:25*pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Thursday, May 3, 2012 10:33:42 AM UTC-6, soartech wrote:
Open up the wing, wrap the spar with Kevlar and carbon fiber/epoxy and
carbon rod top and bottom.
Lots of info on this at many web sites. Reassemble the wing. Do a 10G
sandbag test.
Document everything and ask for an experimental certificate from your
local FAA.
Or call it an L-13plus and go fly.


I think an easier major modification towards an experimental certificate might be struts (which I suggested to MM long ago and was also suggest by some gent in Brazil).

It actually might look okay with struts;^)


I think someone else said the FAA isn't going to allow an 'end run'
around the AD by converting it to an Experimental Airworthiness
Certificate - even with struts slapped on.


Probably not, but there are provisions for taking certified aircraft to experimental following major modifications. Auto engine conversions come to mind.

Note that there were serial changes to the L-13 wing construction as the L-13 A1. Additionally some L-13's were modified to that standard. The design change was continued into the L-23. L-13 A1's and suitably modified L-13's were returned to service with new life limits up to 5,000 hours. See the EASA section of http://sites.google.com/site/blanikspar/ The AD issued 11 July 2011 superseded the previous four AD's. The Revision 1 of the STC on 28 Feb 2012 extended the life of the L-13s modified by the STC to 5,000 hours. It requires a hands on inspection to determine an L-13A1 or partially or fully modified L-13. Would be interesting to know how many are back on flight status in EASA countries and if any other countries have followed EASA's lead.

Frank Whiteley
  #19  
Old May 4th 12, 05:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
GM
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Posts: 211
Default What to do with L-13?

See how many you can fit into a container and then ship them to
Australia?


That depends on powerful your compactor is and how small a cube of aluminum it can produce ;-)
If you melt them down first, 292kg of Al would be cube of only .108m^3 so I would say volume-wise, you could easily fit all 300 of them in one standard 20' container which has a volume of 1360cuft. The weight (87.6t) however may be more than what they allow to put into one box.

I know, that sounds heartless - I loved our Blechnik - until it's wing came off. It is a 50 year old design - R.I.P(ieces).

Uli
  #20  
Old May 4th 12, 05:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
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Posts: 746
Default What to do with L-13?

On May 3, 9:56*pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Thursday, May 3, 2012 9:34:28 PM UTC-6, Bill D wrote:
On May 3, 9:25*pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Thursday, May 3, 2012 10:33:42 AM UTC-6, soartech wrote:
Open up the wing, wrap the spar with Kevlar and carbon fiber/epoxy and
carbon rod top and bottom.
Lots of info on this at many web sites. Reassemble the wing. Do a 10G
sandbag test.
Document everything and ask for an experimental certificate from your
local FAA.
Or call it an L-13plus and go fly.


I think an easier major modification towards an experimental certificate might be struts (which I suggested to MM long ago and was also suggest by some gent in Brazil).


It actually might look okay with struts;^)


I think someone else said the FAA isn't going to allow an 'end run'
around the AD by converting it to an Experimental Airworthiness
Certificate - even with struts slapped on.


Probably not, but there are provisions for taking certified aircraft to experimental following major modifications. *Auto engine conversions come to mind.


These aren't Experimental Homebuilt or Experimental Racing &
Exhibition - they're Experimental Engineering Test. Don't expect to
use one for flight instruction. I don't think this is a realistic
option.
 




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