FAA to ground 80% of Glider Training Fleet... it's just a question of when

On 4/5/2013 7:41 AM, Bill D wrote:
The only things I would change are convenience items like wing hard
points for one-man assembly tools and maybe some hand grips to help
lever a creaky old instructor out of the back seat. I think quick
and easy rigging/de-rigging is important for those without a hangar.

How about rigging or retrieving from a farm field? The wings look big
and heavy, and so does the fuselage.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Friday, April 5, 2013 8:38:57 PM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote:

How about rigging or retrieving from a farm field? The wings look big and heavy, and so does the fuselage.


ASK-21 wings are not that heavy. I rig two of them every time we fly. It's the easiest 2-seat glider I know of to rig. I really makes sense to store them de-rigged in a covered trailer if you don't have a hangar.

My usual crew is teenage CAP Cadets who have never seen a glider before and we get it done in about half an hour. I can lift the root by myself but it's too wide for me to align the spigots so I need someone on the trailing edge. The fun part is to get the smallest Cadet to do the wing pins - their grin is priceless.

A one-man dolly would be helpful but the wings are so wide it would need a huge saddle which is why I mentioned hard points. That way the dolly could be really small for storage.

Now Eric, you need to get off of your high horse.
The SZD 54-2 Perkoz is ready for purchase as well as the PW-6U.
http://soaringcafe.com/2012/04/world...ilplanes-dead/
http://soaringcafe.com/2012/12/the-szd-50-puchacz/
http://soaringcafe.com/2012/12/szd-54-2-perkoz-part-2/

Jacek

The ASK-21 is essentially a perfect training glider. *Its superb handling qualities match its beautiful appearance. *Yes, it's expensive up-front but they have a long life and will pay that investment back.

The only things I would change are convenience items like wing hard points for one-man assembly tools and maybe some hand grips to help lever a creaky old instructor out of the back seat. *I think quick and easy rigging/de-rigging is important for those without a hangar.

Living in the land of mice, black widow spiders, snakes and locusts
and having recently helped vacuum out several large thick piles of
locust body parts from under the seatpan of a K21 I can add another
thing I would change on it. It would be nice if complete access to
the entire fuselage by any critter the size of a baby skunk, raccoon
or possum could be limited. What critter eats the juicy parts of
thousands of grasshoppers and leaves only the legs, wings and other
dry parts? Seems like a mammal would eat the whole bug.

On 4/5/2013 8:28 PM, ASM wrote:
Now Eric, you need to get off of your high horse.
The SZD 54-2 Perkoz is ready for purchase as well as the PW-6U.
http://soaringcafe.com/2012/04/world...ilplanes-dead/
http://soaringcafe.com/2012/12/the-szd-50-puchacz/
http://soaringcafe.com/2012/12/szd-54-2-perkoz-part-2/

I don't have horse in this discussion. I'm just answering questions
people have about Windward Performance's abilities and offerings. I've
already ordered my two-seater, and it's a side-by-side with tractor
propeller!

Practically speaking, I know very little about the gliders you mention,
so I'm not qualified to discuss them.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On 6/04/2013 13:38, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 4/5/2013 7:41 AM, Bill D wrote:
The only things I would change are convenience items like wing hard
points for one-man assembly tools and maybe some hand grips to help
lever a creaky old instructor out of the back seat. I think quick
and easy rigging/de-rigging is important for those without a hangar.

How about rigging or retrieving from a farm field? The wings look big
and heavy, and so does the fuselage.

Quite right, Eric, K21s are heavy. Unlike prepregs however, they are
also quick, cheap and not technologically challenging to repair. The
insurance premiums are commensurate with that.

In over 50 years of aviation, I've yet to see a training aircraft so
robust that repairability wasn't important. (However, I've never seen a
2-33 so I may be wrong...)

GC

On Apr 5, 11:27*pm, GC wrote:

Quite right, Eric, K21s are heavy. *Unlike prepregs however, they are
also quick, cheap and not technologically challenging to repair. *The
insurance premiums are commensurate with that.

Using the field-optimized technologies I developed and refined for the
HP-24 project, I'm pretty sure I can hit 175 lbs/panel for each of
Aurora's ASK21-sized wings. That's not as light as might be wished
for, but it has good margin for repairability and operationality.

Thanks, Bob K.

On Friday, April 5, 2013 11:28:38 PM UTC-4, ASM wrote:
Now Eric, you need to get off of your high horse.

The SZD 54-2 Perkoz is ready for purchase as well as the PW-6U.

http://soaringcafe.com/2012/04/world...ilplanes-dead/

http://soaringcafe.com/2012/12/the-szd-50-puchacz/

http://soaringcafe.com/2012/12/szd-54-2-perkoz-part-2/



Jacek

The SZD-54-2 deserves more attention than it is getting in the USA

On Friday, April 5, 2013 9:11:06 PM UTC-6, Bill D wrote:
On Friday, April 5, 2013 8:38:57 PM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote:



How about rigging or retrieving from a farm field? The wings look big and heavy, and so does the fuselage.





ASK-21 wings are not that heavy. I rig two of them every time we fly. It's the easiest 2-seat glider I know of to rig. I really makes sense to store them de-rigged in a covered trailer if you don't have a hangar.



My usual crew is teenage CAP Cadets who have never seen a glider before and we get it done in about half an hour. I can lift the root by myself but it's too wide for me to align the spigots so I need someone on the trailing edge. The fun part is to get the smallest Cadet to do the wing pins - their grin is priceless.



A one-man dolly would be helpful but the wings are so wide it would need a huge saddle which is why I mentioned hard points. That way the dolly could be really small for storage.

A K-21 can be rigged and derigged by two moderately strong persons without a wing dolly and good wing stands. Can be, but not preferred. Been there, done that.

A PW-6 can be done reasonably easily by two. I watched, offered to help two gents well older then me, and they said 'just watch'. I did and they did..

Frank Whiteley

On Friday, April 5, 2013 11:11:06 PM UTC-4, Bill D wrote:
On Friday, April 5, 2013 8:38:57 PM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote: How about rigging or retrieving from a farm field? The wings look big and heavy, and so does the fuselage. ASK-21 wings are not that heavy. I rig two of them every time we fly. It's the easiest 2-seat glider I know of to rig. I really makes sense to store them de-rigged in a covered trailer if you don't have a hangar. My usual crew is teenage CAP Cadets who have never seen a glider before and we get it done in about half an hour. I can lift the root by myself but it's too wide for me to align the spigots so I need someone on the trailing edge. The fun part is to get the smallest Cadet to do the wing pins - their grin is priceless. A one-man dolly would be helpful but the wings are so wide it would need a huge saddle which is why I mentioned hard points. That way the dolly could be really small for storage.

We use a rigger and can assemble using 2 people in about 15-20 minutes.
Lots less lifting that way.
UH