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#31
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FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
On 9/17/2010 8:45 AM, cernauta wrote:
On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 08:06:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote: If a "European" FLARM is brought to US, and auto frequency selection has not been defeated, it should be expected to switch to the same frequency as used for US PowerFLARM. Or still, you can select the geographic area, and the associated frequency, by fiddling in the setup menu (using the "flarmtool" pc interface). Does anyone really know that Flarm actually selects a frequency and transmits while in the USA? Since they prohibit it's use in the USA, it seems more logical to shut off the transmitter when in the USA. If it's legal reasons that are the basis for the prohibition, I would think shutting it off gives far more protection from lawsuits or the FCC regulations, when they clearly have the ability to disable it as desired. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me) - "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz |
#32
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FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
On 9/17/2010 11:17 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 9/17/2010 8:45 AM, cernauta wrote: On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 08:06:34 -0700 (PDT), wrote: If a "European" FLARM is brought to US, and auto frequency selection has not been defeated, it should be expected to switch to the same frequency as used for US PowerFLARM. Or still, you can select the geographic area, and the associated frequency, by fiddling in the setup menu (using the "flarmtool" pc interface). Does anyone really know that Flarm actually selects a frequency and transmits while in the USA? Since they prohibit it's use in the USA, it seems more logical to shut off the transmitter when in the USA. If it's legal reasons that are the basis for the prohibition, I would think shutting it off gives far more protection from lawsuits or the FCC regulations, when they clearly have the ability to disable it as desired. Perhaps they could get an FCC waiver to use Flarm in the Worlds task area, and allow Flarm to work in the task area (and nowhere else in the USA) and only during the contest period, and only during the day. The trick is getting the waiver, not the minor Flarm firmware additions. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me) - "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz |
#33
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FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
Eric Greenwell wrote:
Perhaps they could get an FCC waiver to use Flarm in the Worlds task area, and allow Flarm to work in the task area (and nowhere else in the USA) and only during the contest period, and only during the day. I'm not sure they would consider this, as the problem isn't the FCC but definitely their fear of those insane US liability lawsuits. Why else would they prohibit the use of FLARM not only in the USA but worldwide when there is a US citizen on board? |
#34
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FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
On 9/17/2010 12:02 PM, John Smith wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote: Perhaps they could get an FCC waiver to use Flarm in the Worlds task area, and allow Flarm to work in the task area (and nowhere else in the USA) and only during the contest period, and only during the day. I'm not sure they would consider this, as the problem isn't the FCC but definitely their fear of those insane US liability lawsuits. Do you know this from speaking with a principal in the Flarm company? Or is that an assumption? Why else would they prohibit the use of FLARM not only in the USA but worldwide when there is a US citizen on board? If "insane US liability lawsuits" are a problem, how will they avoid the problem for PowerFlarm? For that matter, how does Zaon avoid the same problem for their PCAS units? -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me) |
#35
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FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
Eric Greenwell wrote:
I'm not sure they would consider this, as the problem isn't the FCC but definitely their fear of those insane US liability lawsuits. Do you know this from speaking with a principal in the Flarm company? Or is that an assumption? I know it from "second hand direct information", from knowing how European people in general think about the USA liability insanity, and last but not least the FLARM people say so on their faq page (only available in German): www.flarm.com/support/faq/index.html Besides, do you think they would go through the paperwork to have the device approved by the FCC equivalents in many countries, but would recoil at the idea to do it for the USA? If "insane US liability lawsuits" are a problem, how will they avoid the problem for PowerFlarm? No idea. But they are not that small startup company anymore but have had a couple of years now to sort things out and have maybe found a way to avoid the risk. For that matter, how does Zaon avoid the same problem for their PCAS units? No idea. Maybe they even don't and just gamble? |
#36
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FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
On 9/17/2010 12:58 PM, John Smith wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote: I'm not sure they would consider this, as the problem isn't the FCC but definitely their fear of those insane US liability lawsuits. Do you know this from speaking with a principal in the Flarm company? Or is that an assumption? I know it from "second hand direct information", from knowing how European people in general think about the USA liability insanity, and last but not least the FLARM people say so on their faq page (only available in German): www.flarm.com/support/faq/index.html Besides, do you think they would go through the paperwork to have the device approved by the FCC equivalents in many countries, but would recoil at the idea to do it for the USA? My guesses: Perhaps the North America market was thought to be too small and the FCC licensing too expensive; perhaps in the Euro zone, they did not have to contend with "many countries"; licensing in at least one country (Australia), was not done by Flarm. If "insane US liability lawsuits" are a problem, how will they avoid the problem for PowerFlarm? No idea. But they are not that small startup company anymore but have had a couple of years now to sort things out and have maybe found a way to avoid the risk. So, perhaps the problem is not USA and Canada's "insane liability laws", but Flarm's understanding of them. It would be interesting to know Flarm's reasoning and how it's changed over the years so that they are now entering the market here. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me) |
#37
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FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
Eric Greenwell wrote:
It would be interesting to know Flarm's reasoning They have an e-mail address. |
#38
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FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
Please correct me if I am wrong.
There is still no information that I could find on how the PCAS part of the PowerFlarm will behave in a thermal full of gliders equipped with Mod C transponders and PowerFlarms. I would like to hear how would this unit be usable in such a situation? There is no way signals from Mod C transponders could be correlated with FLARM so the PCAS would just get crazy and the unit unusable, correct? And what about a similar situation where gliders are only equipped with Mod C transponders, I guess the same outcome the unit would be unusable due to many signal sources in small area. I already experienced this with Zaon MRX so I know this is the case. So, how will it work? Anyone truly knows? What I want is a pure FLARM! I don't need the annoyance of a PCAS when I am in a thermal full of gliders equipped with Mod C transponders. I also don't need ADS-B for a while until it will really be usable. Why do I need to be early adopter of the ADS-B when I want to be an early adopter of FLARM. This box looks to me was designed for power pilots who don't fly very close to a bunch of other aircraft equipped with transponders then the PCAS is not a problem. I am not about to purchase another annoying instrument I already have one PCAS. It is great outside glider congested areas but not in a contest. So unless I hear the PCAS issue is resolved in some way I am not going to buy a unit to find out it is not doing what I need to do. I am waiting to be corrected with FACTS. AK |
#39
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FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
Facts? I think that's a different forum. RAS actually stands for
Rumors And Speculation. On Sep 17, 2:22*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote: Please correct me if I am wrong. There is still no information that I could find on how the PCAS part of the PowerFlarm will behave in a thermal full of gliders equipped with Mod C transponders and PowerFlarms. I would like to hear how would this unit be usable in such a situation? There is no way signals from Mod C transponders could be correlated with FLARM so the PCAS would just get crazy and the unit unusable, correct? And what about a similar situation where gliders are only equipped with Mod C transponders, I guess the same outcome the unit would be unusable due to many signal sources in small area. I already experienced this with Zaon MRX so I know this is the case. So, how will it work? Anyone truly knows? What I want is a pure FLARM! I don't need the annoyance of a PCAS when I am in a thermal full of gliders equipped with Mod C transponders. I also don't need ADS-B for a while until it will really be usable. Why do I need to be early adopter of the ADS-B when I want to be an early adopter of FLARM. This box looks to me was designed for power pilots who don't fly very close to a bunch of other aircraft equipped with transponders then the PCAS is not a problem. I am not about to purchase another annoying instrument I already have one PCAS. It is great outside glider congested areas but not in a contest. So unless I hear the PCAS issue is resolved in some way I am not going to buy a unit to find out it is not doing what I need to do. I am waiting to be corrected with FACTS. AK |
#40
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FLARM Technology for the US Gliding Community
On Sep 17, 2:22*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
Please correct me if I am wrong. There is still no information that I could find on how the PCAS part of the PowerFlarm will behave in a thermal full of gliders equipped with Mod C transponders and PowerFlarms. I would like to hear how would this unit be usable in such a situation? There is no way signals from Mod C transponders could be correlated with FLARM so the PCAS would just get crazy and the unit unusable, correct? And what about a similar situation where gliders are only equipped with Mod C transponders, I guess the same outcome the unit would be unusable due to many signal sources in small area. I already experienced this with Zaon MRX so I know this is the case. So, how will it work? Anyone truly knows? What I want is a pure FLARM! I don't need the annoyance of a PCAS when I am in a thermal full of gliders equipped with Mod C transponders. I also don't need ADS-B for a while until it will really be usable. Why do I need to be early adopter of the ADS-B when I want to be an early adopter of FLARM. This box looks to me was designed for power pilots who don't fly very close to a bunch of other aircraft equipped with transponders then the PCAS is not a problem. I am not about to purchase another annoying instrument I already have one PCAS. It is great outside glider congested areas but not in a contest. So unless I hear the PCAS issue is resolved in some way I am not going to buy a unit to find out it is not doing what I need to do. I am waiting to be corrected with FACTS. AK This has already been discussed in threads here. As you point out PCAS cannot work in crowded gaggles - so you disable the PCAS alarm in those situation. As I've pointed out before it's not just that it will be annoying, it is that the Mode C transponders fundamentally wont' work properly in crowded gaggles. There is no other way "resolve" this issue, so you turn it off. This is a product designed to work in contest environments, the developers understand these issues. Darryl |
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