When to acknowledge ATC

Every time I fly through the NY class B ( at least once or more a month) vfr
I hear the words
" cleared into the class bravo" if I dont hear it I ask them to please
confirm "cleared into the class bravo" They will then speak the full cleared
into the class bravo statment.

Jon

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:4lVee.642$14.38@trndny03...
A Lieberman wrote:

You must hear the words cleared through Bravo on a VFR flight.

New York ATC disagrees with you.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:dkVee.641$14.196@trndny03...
[...]
In that case, he can say so instead of claiming that I'm wrong when
I say that I don't do this.

I suspect he misunderstood that you were referring to ONLY your own
experience. An understandable mistake given the sub-thread, IMHO. After
all, a single individual's experience has very little bearing on the overall
wisdom of reading back altimeter settings.

Yes, you specifically said "*I* rarely get..." but in context, that can
easily be interpreted as implying a general case, rather than being meant
for only the specific case.

Looking back over the past several posts in this sub-thread, it certainly
appears that there's a fair amount of mixed signals. Maybe someone
should've read back a post or two.

Pete

"A Guy Called Tyketto" wrote in message
m...

Read the documents yourself, if you don't believe me. Better
yet, call the ATC when they chastise you for not reading back anything
that
tells you to remain outside of a given airspace for a reason.


ATC isn't going to do that.

"A Guy Called Tyketto" wrote in message
...

Because if you don't read it back, they have no way to know
that you have acknowledged their call to you.


They know I've acknowledged their call when I respond with "Roger."



Would you want ATC to
keep repeating the same call to you, adding more radio congestion to a
frequency they are already busy on?


Why would they repeat a call that I've acknowledged?



If they're trying to provide
separation that your jaunt through their airspace could jeopardize,
they're bloody well are goign to look for hearing a readback from you
on it, and make sure that you are still outside their airspace.


No they're not. All they want is acknowledgement. Why do you want to
increase frequency congestion with unnecessary readbacks? Do you understand
the difference between acknowledgement and a readback?



For class C, they will always tell you 'radar contact
location, say altitude'. Class B, they'll tell you 'radar contact
location, cleared through/into xxx Class B airspace' along with an
altimeter setting for the major airport in their area. That is a
requirement for ATC to give you when entering Class B or C airspace.
See the 7110.65, sections 5-3-1 through 5-3-6. There's the requirement.
If they tell you to remain outside a given airspace, you had best
readback that you are remaining outside that airspace. 7-9-2 gives
leeway for the readback.


The controller is required to inform you that you're in radar contact once
radar contact has been established, but there's no requirement to establish
radar contact prior to entry in Class B or Class C airspace.

On Fri, 06 May 2005 16:50:22 GMT, George Patterson
wrote:

Jose wrote:

No. As you said, Class B airspace requires ATC to tell you you are
cleared into it. You need to hear "Cleared through the Bravo airspace"
or somesuch.

The last clearance I got from New York ran something like "November 3162 Kebec,
climb to 2500 feet, heading 355, stay west of the river, report at the Hudson
tunnel."

When I've asked for a Bravo clearance, and they have to check with
another controller, they'll sometimes come back with something like
the above... Just directions that would be take me into the Bravo
without the explicit 'cleared into the bravo'. I'll usually read
those back with 'understand cleared into the bravo' appended to the
end so there is no mistaking things.

aw

"George Patterson"
"George Patterson"

The last clearance I got from New York ran something like "November 3162
Kebec, climb to 2500 feet, heading 355, stay west of the river, report at
the Hudson tunnel."

Ask for the clearance. You're in violation without it.

The instruction to climb *was* the clearance.

If you were outside Class B, bull****. That area, above 1000' is class B
airspace or a control zone. Nothing but the word "cleared" is a clearance.
It may have happened. But you were in violation because the controller,
whatever he meant, didn't clear you into Class B.

moo

"George Patterson" wrote in message

I think his point is that one can receive an altimeter setting from ATC
at times other than dealing with an arrival in or flight through airspace
related to a towered airport (and thus at times other than when an ATIS
is available to provide the altimeter setting).

In that case, he can say so instead of claiming that I'm wrong when I say
that I don't do this. The only times I talk to ATC are when I intend to
takeoff or land from a controlled field.

As I tried to make clear, a tower may not give you an altimeter setting
because you're supposed to listen to the ATIS. Granted. You used NYC
airspace as an example. How do you get into Class B without first talking
to Center, Departure or Approach? (All of them will set you up on contact.)
New York Centre won't hand you off to a tower 30 miles away and 20 miles
outside Class B. If you try to get a clearance from, say, La Guardia Tower
when you're 30 miles back, they won't give it to you. They will become
unhappy and tell you to contact approach. Approach isn't interested in
which ATIS you've been listening to. And, in NYC airspace, they're deeply
uninterested in you at all. They will give you an altimeter setting. Do
you really fly this airspace? Tell us the procedure you use for VFR into
NYC.

moo

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:4lVee.642$14.38@trndny03...
A Lieberman wrote:

You must hear the words cleared through Bravo on a VFR flight.

New York ATC disagrees with you.

Ahh, good. Got a cite for this? Did nobody tell you that you're not
cleared unless you hear the good word? (Yes, I know they sometimes forget.
And it's *your* problem, pas question.)

moo

"George Patterson"
Happy Dog wrote:

So you're speaking almost exclusively about towers? That I can see. If
the ATIS is good, no need for the altimeter setting. Other than towers,
you should almost always be getting a setting on initial contact.

Uh .... Just where do you fly that has an ATIS and *doesn't* have a tower?

Above, I said "other than towers". I've corrected the ambiguity of my
initial statement. Again:

"Other than towers, you should almost always be getting a setting on
initial contact."

Do you only talk to towers? Possible. But tricky in some places. Anyway,
are you saying you almost always stay below Class Bravo? Another post
indicated you don't. So what are you talking about?

moo

By regulation, Air Force pilots read back all altimeter settings. I
think its a good practice and continue to do so although not required
by civil regs. The only time I don't is when ATC blanket broadcasts a
new setting to all airplanes on freq.