How come the wings bank when I use the rudder

On Oct 26, 2:25 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Rich Ahrens wrote phouse.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Actually, are you sure the 195 is zero dihedral? Most high wing
airplanes that have zero dihedral look like they have anhedral.
(Swick T-cart, f'rinstance)
It's tapered as well. so even zero dihedral on top would still give
some below!

He's right, Bertie. Zero. Here's a copy of an old Cessna brochure
which states so explicitly:

http://cessna195.org/classic/brochur...chure=7&page=2

Yeah, zero in the top, but since it's tapered, there can't be zero on the
bottom...

Bertie

I was looking at a 195 just Wednesday - which was having a heater
installed - as I was having service on my heater at the factory... The
centerline of the wing/spar has zero dihedral... And the top surface
is tapered down to the tip as much as the bottom surface is tapered
up...

denny

Denny wrote in
oups.com:

On Oct 26, 2:25 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Rich Ahrens wrote
phouse.com:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Actually, are you sure the 195 is zero dihedral? Most high wing
airplanes that have zero dihedral look like they have anhedral.
(Swick T-cart, f'rinstance)
It's tapered as well. so even zero dihedral on top would still
give some below!

He's right, Bertie. Zero. Here's a copy of an old Cessna brochure
which states so explicitly:

http://cessna195.org/classic/brochur...chure=7&page=2

Yeah, zero in the top, but since it's tapered, there can't be zero on
the bottom...

Bertie

I was looking at a 195 just Wednesday - which was having a heater
installed - as I was having service on my heater at the factory... The
centerline of the wing/spar has zero dihedral... And the top surface
is tapered down to the tip as much as the bottom surface is tapered
up...


Dunna thin so.


I'll have ot look at one next time I pass one, though. Only way you
could tell for sure is to sight along the top of the wing..

I usd to fly one and it was a very nice flying airplane whichever way it
is arranged!

Bertie

BT wrote:
Isn't interesting that entry level RC Aircraft only have rudder and elevator
controls.. and then turn just fine.

When the rudder is applied, a skid and a turn follow. The skid is of no
consequence, but any turn rate at all is of great consequence, since tht
makes the outside wing fly faster, creating more lift, and a bank is the
result; a two-stage event where succession is important.

Sort of like turning a bicycle, where a small jink to the outside of
the intended turn is required to establish the bank needed for the turn.

In a stall, you pick up the low wing with rudder, not aileron, that only
adds adverse yaw, more drag on the low wing, and fights the rudder.

Aileron action, following the wright Brothers wing warping, was
intentionally symmetrical (same magnitude both sides) and all pilot
training through and after WWII were taught "Coordination"; one applied
rudder and aileron simultaneously. After WWII, civil airplane designers
acted to make life simpler for the pilot by tweaking aileron action.

The adverse yaw is caused by the extra induced* drag of a wing that is
obliged to lift more ends up also dragging more, The inbord wing is
casued to drop by an up-aileron, and any increase in parasite (non-lift)
drag is exceeded by the lack of induced drag. One day the light came on
and it was deduced that if only the inbirad aileron deflected up, the
adverse yaw would ve greately reduced if not eliminated. Sa ther wwas
born "differential movement" and belcrakx and levers were rigged such
that the inbord aileron deflected up a lot, while the outboard aileron
deflected very little.

[*"Induced" means that it is not real friction or turbulence drag, but
a new rearward force that results from a wing or aileron that is
creating extra lift.]

So today, most civit aircraft can be put into and out of gentle turns
with aileron alone, and that's what makes single-axis autopilots
(aileron only) so successful.

Angelo Campanella

Angelo Campanella wrote in
:

BT wrote:
Isn't interesting that entry level RC Aircraft only have rudder and
elevator controls.. and then turn just fine.

When the rudder is applied, a skid and a turn follow. The skid is
of no
consequence, but any turn rate at all is of great consequence, since
tht makes the outside wing fly faster, creating more lift, and a bank
is the result; a two-stage event where succession is important.




Not true.

All the evidence you need to the contrary can be supplied by simply yawing
the airplane while holding opposite aileron, thus inducing a skid, and then
neutralising the ailerons.

the airplane will roll left and nothing to do with the differntial speed of
the wing, because there won;t be any!


Bertie

....but if the wing has any significant dihedral, the 'upwind' wing will be
flying at a higher angle of attack than the 'downwind' wing, causing a roll
towards the downwind wing. The 'downwind' wing inboard section will also be
partially blanked by the fuselage which will also produce asymmetrical lift
on the wing.

--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
Angelo Campanella wrote in
:

BT wrote:
Isn't interesting that entry level RC Aircraft only have rudder and
elevator controls.. and then turn just fine.

When the rudder is applied, a skid and a turn follow. The skid is
of no
consequence, but any turn rate at all is of great consequence, since
tht makes the outside wing fly faster, creating more lift, and a bank
is the result; a two-stage event where succession is important.




Not true.

All the evidence you need to the contrary can be supplied by simply yawing
the airplane while holding opposite aileron, thus inducing a skid, and
then
neutralising the ailerons.

the airplane will roll left and nothing to do with the differntial speed
of
the wing, because there won;t be any!


Bertie

"Mike Noel" wrote in
:

...but if the wing has any significant dihedral, the 'upwind' wing
will be flying at a higher angle of attack than the 'downwind' wing,
causing a roll towards the downwind wing. The 'downwind' wing inboard
section will also be partially blanked by the fuselage which will also
produce asymmetrical lift on the wing.


Xactly.


Bertie