Dizziness disorientation

New Pilot wrote in
news
The turning effect seems to happen over about 8 to 10 seconds to turn
the aircraft 15 degrees.

Once turned it seems to remain stable now pointing in a different
direction. I then see that the balance ball is a little off centre.
I did try turning the ruddder trim knob to the right and left but it
did not seem to have much if any effect.

Sounds awfully slow and consistent to be weathervaning to me. As others
have said, weathervaning happens with wind gusts and you'd feel the plane
being "pushed" a few degrees left or right as it was happening.

More than likely it's a coordination issue. Either the rudder and/or
aileron trim is off, or you're letting your feet and fingers do things that
your head isn't paying attention to. You're the pilot, man. Control the
plane! Watch the ball!

Steep turns 45 degees or more to the right are fine,
Have some trouble with turns to the left usually kicks in after one
full circuit almost if the fluid in my ears is delayed in some way -
Thogh i fight the sensation and can do satisfactory steep turns to the
left.
maybe having just done a few 45degree turns to the right and then
pretty much banking to the left without stopping at the straight and
level for a rest may not help.

Have you tried starting with a left turn? I don't think it's completely
outrageous for you to have a momentary queasy sensation as you do the 90*
switch (from right 45 to left 45). It doesn't happen to me, but I can see
how it might be uncomfortable for some.

Loosing height quickly is no problem the ears do equalise to the
pressure change - gaining height quickly in a worn PA28 does not
really happen max = 750 feet/minute thats with just me fueled to tabs
and no baggage.

The concept of the short approach is that you're going to be doing an
aggressive descent in a 30* bank turn...

I'm guessing you may have some "queasiness" issues (my sister has them) and
may want to talk to your AME about it. I think your "weathervaning" issues
are really just letting yourself be the passenger instead of the pilot.

On 20 Jan 2008 20:44:55 GMT, Judah wrote:

New Pilot wrote in
news
The turning effect seems to happen over about 8 to 10 seconds to turn
the aircraft 15 degrees.

Once turned it seems to remain stable now pointing in a different
direction. I then see that the balance ball is a little off centre.
I did try turning the ruddder trim knob to the right and left but it
did not seem to have much if any effect.

Sounds awfully slow and consistent to be weathervaning to me. As others
have said, weathervaning happens with wind gusts and you'd feel the plane
being "pushed" a few degrees left or right as it was happening.

More than likely it's a coordination issue. Either the rudder and/or
aileron trim is off, or you're letting your feet and fingers do things that
your head isn't paying attention to. You're the pilot, man. Control the
plane! Watch the ball!

Steep turns 45 degees or more to the right are fine,
Have some trouble with turns to the left usually kicks in after one
full circuit almost if the fluid in my ears is delayed in some way -
Thogh i fight the sensation and can do satisfactory steep turns to the
left.
maybe having just done a few 45degree turns to the right and then
pretty much banking to the left without stopping at the straight and
level for a rest may not help.

Have you tried starting with a left turn? I don't think it's completely
outrageous for you to have a momentary queasy sensation as you do the 90*
switch (from right 45 to left 45). It doesn't happen to me, but I can see
how it might be uncomfortable for some.

Loosing height quickly is no problem the ears do equalise to the
pressure change - gaining height quickly in a worn PA28 does not
really happen max = 750 feet/minute thats with just me fueled to tabs
and no baggage.

The concept of the short approach is that you're going to be doing an
aggressive descent in a 30* bank turn...

I'm guessing you may have some "queasiness" issues (my sister has them) and
may want to talk to your AME about it. I think your "weathervaning" issues
are really just letting yourself be the passenger instead of the pilot.

Thanks for that, could well be just me being a passenger.
The nearest to the short approach sometimes is a base leg join where I
have to loose 800 feet in a short time and turning. but thats not
really agressive.

In response to another poster mentioning the UK weather and costs that
is absolutly right. weather here has been awful on the south coast and
the cost of flying
Hire for 1 hour of a PA28 wet is about $250 at loose approximation US
dollars
Landing fee at my local airport is now $35
Touch and go is $16 and they now charge $16 for a missed approach
-they waive that fee if ATC instruct a go around,

New Pilot wrote in
:

Thanks for that, could well be just me being a passenger.
The nearest to the short approach sometimes is a base leg join where I
have to loose 800 feet in a short time and turning. but thats not
really agressive.

In response to another poster mentioning the UK weather and costs that
is absolutly right. weather here has been awful on the south coast and
the cost of flying
Hire for 1 hour of a PA28 wet is about $250 at loose approximation US
dollars
Landing fee at my local airport is now $35
Touch and go is $16 and they now charge $16 for a missed approach
-they waive that fee if ATC instruct a go around,

Holy cow! That's out of control - charging for a missed approach?!?! Is
this a Class B airport or something? What is their justification? How much
wear & tear does your Archer cause the runway when it never even touches
it! Are they concerned about the downdrafts from the ground effect?

I think you should consider moving to the US. Life will be better.
Especially in another two or three years...

I don't think I ever paid more than $15 for a landing fee in an Archer (or
even in a Bonanza, for that matter). And I've only ever heard of one
airport in the US where the owner was trying to charge people for touch &
goes. And I don't think he does it anymore. But even he wasn't charging for
a go-around or missed approach...

On 21 Jan 2008 15:00:46 GMT, Judah wrote:

New Pilot wrote in
:

Thanks for that, could well be just me being a passenger.
The nearest to the short approach sometimes is a base leg join where I
have to loose 800 feet in a short time and turning. but thats not
really agressive.

In response to another poster mentioning the UK weather and costs that
is absolutly right. weather here has been awful on the south coast and
the cost of flying
Hire for 1 hour of a PA28 wet is about $250 at loose approximation US
dollars
Landing fee at my local airport is now $35
Touch and go is $16 and they now charge $16 for a missed approach
-they waive that fee if ATC instruct a go around,

Holy cow! That's out of control - charging for a missed approach?!?! Is
this a Class B airport or something? What is their justification? How much
wear & tear does your Archer cause the runway when it never even touches
it! Are they concerned about the downdrafts from the ground effect?

I think you should consider moving to the US. Life will be better.
Especially in another two or three years...

I don't think I ever paid more than $15 for a landing fee in an Archer (or
even in a Bonanza, for that matter). And I've only ever heard of one
airport in the US where the owner was trying to charge people for touch &
goes. And I don't think he does it anymore. But even he wasn't charging for
a go-around or missed approach...

This is fairly normal for UK GA airfields. This one has full ATC
unlike a lot of smaller airfields though the largest plane usually
handled are 12 seat biz jets due to the main runway being just a
little over 1000 meters long. the ICAO code is EGKA. Touch and goes
are charged at some rate usually half or below half of the landing
fees. Seems to be factored into their running costs though I don't
know the ins and outs of how their financial model works - only that
it is very expensive for the humble pilot. The Fees above are based on
weight and are the above for anything up to 1.5 metric tonnes they
double for bigger aircraft.
The missed approach fees started a few months ago. I think because
aircraft from other local airfields were practicing approaches and
before the wheels touched the ground putting on power and going
around. This they would do a couple of times - usually flight training
outfits and then they would fly merrily of back to their own airfield
with a few low approaches and no touch and go fees. Aircraft from my
airfield are equally guilty of the same practice and unilaterally my
airfield has put this charge on theoretically to discourage the
practice. that is the official line. The downside is that resident
pilots may try to recover a landing to avoid the fee plus the extra 6
minutes going round the circuit instead of maybe doing the right thing
and declaring a missed approach.

New Pilot wrote in
news
This is fairly normal for UK GA airfields. This one has full ATC
unlike a lot of smaller airfields though the largest plane usually
handled are 12 seat biz jets due to the main runway being just a
little over 1000 meters long. the ICAO code is EGKA. Touch and goes
are charged at some rate usually half or below half of the landing
fees. Seems to be factored into their running costs though I don't
know the ins and outs of how their financial model works - only that
it is very expensive for the humble pilot. The Fees above are based on
weight and are the above for anything up to 1.5 metric tonnes they
double for bigger aircraft.
The missed approach fees started a few months ago. I think because
aircraft from other local airfields were practicing approaches and
before the wheels touched the ground putting on power and going
around. This they would do a couple of times - usually flight training
outfits and then they would fly merrily of back to their own airfield
with a few low approaches and no touch and go fees. Aircraft from my
airfield are equally guilty of the same practice and unilaterally my
airfield has put this charge on theoretically to discourage the
practice. that is the official line. The downside is that resident
pilots may try to recover a landing to avoid the fee plus the extra 6
minutes going round the circuit instead of maybe doing the right thing
and declaring a missed approach.

To put it in perspective, I fly out of a Class D airport, KHPN -
Westchester County Airport - in a large suburb of New York City. The
airport has a tower, and has two intersecting runways - one about 6500' (~
2000 meters), the other 4500' (~1500 meters).

We have several airlines flying out of our field - Delta, United, USAir,
American, Continental, JetBlue, and AirTran. Landing fees for transient
single-engine pistons is $15. There are no fees for touch & goes or for
missed approaches, at least not to the pistons. I don't know what the "big
boys" pay, but I'm sure it's more.

Besides the obvious safety issue, what's to stop a training flight from
lying about his/her tail #?