LXNAV S80 Pilot Reports?

It looks like the S80 also needs an
optional $540 compass module to
provide instantaneous wind data –
included in the Butterfly.

That said, it may be easier to position the
LX compass module safely away from
magnetic disturbances than the Butterfly
ISU which also has to connect to
pneumatics and be aligned properly.

Your panel may not be 90° to level flight
attitude. Any vario with 3-axis
accelerometers has to deal with this in
some way. A separate box as in the
Butterfly gives you the option to set up a
properly aligned platform for the
accelerometers.

At 22:56 27 July 2015, Richard wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:40:34 PM
UTC-7, Craig Funston wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:38:42
PM UTC-7, Craig Funston wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 2:15:36
PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at
11:24:51 AM UTC-7, Greg Delp wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at
2:08:57 PM UTC-4,
w=
rote:
=20
The artificial horizon is
FANTASTIC. On all the time. Cannot
be=
tumbled. I spent part of yesterday
thermalling using just the artificial
=
horizon and it was fairly easy to stay
fully coordinated and keep the
speed=
under perfect control.
=20
=20
I don't have the artificial horizon
option yet but plan to at some
=
point. Does it have a 14 day lock out for
US contests like the other
LXNav=
systems have? The manual wasn't
clear on that point.
=20
According to the SSA website, the
only AHRS with a lockout approved
f=
or US competition use is the Air Avionics
(Butterfly). Perhaps the list is
=
out of date?
=20
I saw an S80 for the first time a
couple of weeks ago, seems like a
n=
ice instrument. With the same capability,
it is about the same price as
the=
Butterfly. The most obvious differences
to me (I have flown with the
Butte=
rfly for 2 years now) is that the S80 has
a real Flarm screen but lacks
the=
inertial instantaneous wind and Vertical
Airmass Movement of the
Butterfly=
.. Other capabilities seem similar, if
differently implemented. And I guess
=
you don't get an IGC flight recorder as
you do in the Butterfly?
=20
Am I missing a sale on Butterfly
hardware? From what I can find
gettin=
g set up with the base level Butterfly
vario is USD $1,400 for the sensor,
=
$1,400 for the display and $160 for a
data conversion port to connect to
an=
Oudie. =20
=20
The S80 comes in at just over $1,500
for the whole unit. That's a
pret=
ty big price difference. I have to admit
to lusting after the Butterfly's
=
instantaneous wind data, but it comes at
too steep a price.
=20
I got an S7 (V7) a couple years ago
and still find it to be a great
ins=
trument.
=20
Cheers,
Craig
7Q
=20
I just saw that the AHRS for the S80
adds over $900 to the price so that
=
makes them closer.
=20
C.

Actually to be exact and get
approximately the same features.

S80 1520
AHRS 912
Nano 395
Cables 22
Total $2849

AirAvionics
Display S 1399
ISU 1399
Total $2798

They are both fine systems.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 6:16:43 PM UTC+2, wrote:
Would anyone care to comment on their experience with the LXNAV S80 vario? Pro's, con's, likes, dislikes, does it perform per manual specs, etc? On paper it looks like a very nice instrument. Thanks for any feedback.

-Mark

I have about 40h with the S80 now in my LS7. My setup is as follows:

PowerFlarm Core Pure - S80 - RasberryPI with USB Serial and Wifi AP - Blackberry Passport with XCSoar


Highlights:
* Very good display
* Very good task function (tested in competition)
* Powerflarm can be powered directly from GPS port
* PDA Port with Power (5v/1A)
* Accurate Wind
* Flarm Display integrated (i threw out the led display)
* Task/Waypoint overview
* STF mode great for Finalglide
* Protocol PDA is the same as for the V7 (S7)
* Easy Firmware upgrades

What it (currently) doesn't do:
* Nearest Airports (This i miss...)
* IGC Logging (I do it via the powerflarm. USB Sticks are very comfortable)
* AAT Task Time optimization (It does AAT just no optimization)
* Airspace warnings (This i miss...)
* Spoken Flarm alerts (I was under the impression it should)

Things I'm still working out:
* Polar calculation does not match XCSoar's which is a shame for Auto MC
* The PTOT Probe in my unit seems defective. I have no TAS
* Using the digial IO pins for the water valves

Sounds like a great system!

Since you mentioned XCSoar, your map displays airports with a good
turnpoint file. If you want a list, simply draw a backwards "L" on the
screen (down then left) and you'll get a list of alternates ordered by
distance.

Likewise, with a .sua (special use airspace) file selected in XCSoar,
you'll get airspace warnings.

Good luck!

On 7/28/2015 5:18 AM, wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 6:16:43 PM UTC+2, wrote:
Would anyone care to comment on their experience with the LXNAV S80 vario? Pro's, con's, likes, dislikes, does it perform per manual specs, etc? On paper it looks like a very nice instrument. Thanks for any feedback.

-Mark
I have about 40h with the S80 now in my LS7. My setup is as follows:

PowerFlarm Core Pure - S80 - RasberryPI with USB Serial and Wifi AP - Blackberry Passport with XCSoar


Highlights:
* Very good display
* Very good task function (tested in competition)
* Powerflarm can be powered directly from GPS port
* PDA Port with Power (5v/1A)
* Accurate Wind
* Flarm Display integrated (i threw out the led display)
* Task/Waypoint overview
* STF mode great for Finalglide
* Protocol PDA is the same as for the V7 (S7)
* Easy Firmware upgrades

What it (currently) doesn't do:
* Nearest Airports (This i miss...)
* IGC Logging (I do it via the powerflarm. USB Sticks are very comfortable)
* AAT Task Time optimization (It does AAT just no optimization)
* Airspace warnings (This i miss...)
* Spoken Flarm alerts (I was under the impression it should)

Things I'm still working out:
* Polar calculation does not match XCSoar's which is a shame for Auto MC
* The PTOT Probe in my unit seems defective. I have no TAS
* Using the digial IO pins for the water valves

--
Dan Marotta

For PCAS targets you need to look at a couple of updates to determine if
the target is a threat. On my last flight my MRX PCAS was screaming
"ALERT" but the distance/delta altitude did not add up to a collision
threat, only that another aircraft was within prescribed limits. Six
tenths of a mile and 600' separation is not much of a threat but not
knowing exactly where to look can be nerve wracking. So watch to see if
the distances are closing and how quickly.

I know it's not as good as a vector, but...

On 7/27/2015 7:18 PM, wrote:
I just completed a flying day with the S80.
I set multiple tasks while flying. It was very easy, even in a bumpy cockpit.
Changing tasks during flight is simple.
A screen pops up as soon as you have final glide to the finish...I like that.
When you finish a task a screen pops up congratulating you for completion...I like that.
The Flarm display is very clear for other Flarm aircraft.
The confusion arises when a non-Flarm, but transponder equiped aircraft comes close because it can't give you a direction for traffic. Big Red circle of dots with an alarm screaming at you and you don't know where to look. At least I was looking.

Happy S80 owner.

--
Dan Marotta

Thanks everyone for the very helpful replies!!

I have flown about 80 hours on my S80.
I have found it to be excellent.
The only criticism I can think of is that it has too many options, it can
be a bit bewildering when setting it up.
We can cloud fly in the UK and the AHRS has been a revelation to me as I
have only ever flown with a turn and slip, brilliant.
Steve.


At 16:16 27 July 2015, wrote:
Would anyone care to comment on their experience with the LXNAV S80
vario?
Pro's, con's, likes, dislikes, does it perform per manual specs, etc? On
paper it looks like a very nice instrument. Thanks for any feedback.

-Mark

On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 9:15:07 PM UTC-7, George Haeh wrote:
It looks like the S80 also needs an
optional $540 compass module to
provide instantaneous wind data -
included in the Butterfly.

That said, it may be easier to position the
LX compass module safely away from
magnetic disturbances than the Butterfly
ISU which also has to connect to
pneumatics and be aligned properly.

Your panel may not be 90° to level flight
attitude. Any vario with 3-axis
accelerometers has to deal with this in
some way. A separate box as in the
Butterfly gives you the option to set up a
properly aligned platform for the
accelerometers.

At 22:56 27 July 2015, Richard wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:40:34 PM
UTC-7, Craig Funston wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:38:42
PM UTC-7, Craig Funston wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 2:15:36
PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at
11:24:51 AM UTC-7, Greg Delp wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at
2:08:57 PM UTC-4,
w=
rote:
=20
The artificial horizon is
FANTASTIC. On all the time. Cannot
be=
tumbled. I spent part of yesterday
thermalling using just the artificial
=
horizon and it was fairly easy to stay
fully coordinated and keep the
speed=
under perfect control.
=20
=20
I don't have the artificial horizon
option yet but plan to at some
=
point. Does it have a 14 day lock out for
US contests like the other
LXNav=
systems have? The manual wasn't
clear on that point.
=20
According to the SSA website, the
only AHRS with a lockout approved
f=
or US competition use is the Air Avionics
(Butterfly). Perhaps the list is
=
out of date?
=20
I saw an S80 for the first time a
couple of weeks ago, seems like a
n=
ice instrument. With the same capability,
it is about the same price as
the=
Butterfly. The most obvious differences
to me (I have flown with the
Butte=
rfly for 2 years now) is that the S80 has
a real Flarm screen but lacks
the=
inertial instantaneous wind and Vertical
Airmass Movement of the
Butterfly=
.. Other capabilities seem similar, if
differently implemented. And I guess
=
you don't get an IGC flight recorder as
you do in the Butterfly?
=20
Am I missing a sale on Butterfly
hardware? From what I can find
gettin=
g set up with the base level Butterfly
vario is USD $1,400 for the sensor,
=
$1,400 for the display and $160 for a
data conversion port to connect to
an=
Oudie. =20
=20
The S80 comes in at just over $1,500
for the whole unit. That's a
pret=
ty big price difference. I have to admit
to lusting after the Butterfly's
=
instantaneous wind data, but it comes at
too steep a price.
=20
I got an S7 (V7) a couple years ago
and still find it to be a great
ins=
trument.
=20
Cheers,
Craig
7Q
=20
I just saw that the AHRS for the S80
adds over $900 to the price so that
=
makes them closer.
=20
C.

Actually to be exact and get
approximately the same features.

S80 1520
AHRS 912
Nano 395
Cables 22
Total $2849

AirAvionics
Display S 1399
ISU 1399
Total $2798

They are both fine systems.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com


I believe the compass module may give you more accurate wind, but it will not be quite the same as the Butterfly, which derives instantaneous wind (and VAM) from inertial data. The compass allows the instrument to compare GPS track and heading, this will have errors particularly while circling or on certain headings, and will need a slow filter for accuracy.

The Butterfly also includes very good voice warnings for Flarm, gear, spoilers, etc. It does not have a good visual warning for Flarm, however given the choice I will take the voice warnings all in, hands down.

I have both. Butterfly for two years in an ASH25 and an S80 this summer in a Libelle. Both are better than any equipment I have had previously.

The instant winds on the Butterfly are cool but of little practical value (an exception might be ridge flying). In my opinion, the Butterfly audio has a more pleasant tone. The inertial sensor unit of the Butterfly is a pain in the butt to locate free of significant magnetic fields in the glider (it took me 6 Mo. to get it right), The visual Flarm warning only occurs on the Flarm page and you would never be flying on the Flarm page. The Butterfly inertial sensor unit has to be straight and level with the fuselage in order for the horizon to work properly. The S80 horizon is adjustable in the vertical axis. The S80 has a thermal helper that works fairly well. The tasking software is better in the S80. The cruise audio in the S80 is just weird and annoying. Both require a lot of setup for your tastes and polar, which, of course gives them their versatility. When you update either, much of your hard work setting them up is either corrupted or erased. Inexcusable I say. They both work best as a back up and not as a primary navigation system. And the winner is. A toss up. If they fixed the cruise audio in the S80 I would give it the edge.
DLB

One other thing; The Butterfly (thanks to Craggy Aero) has a feature to disable the AH for the period of a contest. Presently you can not fly an S80 with the AH enabled in a US contest. The rules committee may fix that soon by removing the ban on such things.
DLB

On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 10:51:59 AM UTC-7, wrote:
I have both. Butterfly for two years in an ASH25 and an S80 this summer in a Libelle. Both are better than any equipment I have had previously.

The instant winds on the Butterfly are cool but of little practical value (an exception might be ridge flying). In my opinion, the Butterfly audio has a more pleasant tone. The inertial sensor unit of the Butterfly is a pain in the butt to locate free of significant magnetic fields in the glider (it took me 6 Mo. to get it right), The visual Flarm warning only occurs on the Flarm page and you would never be flying on the Flarm page. The Butterfly inertial sensor unit has to be straight and level with the fuselage in order for the horizon to work properly. The S80 horizon is adjustable in the vertical axis. The S80 has a thermal helper that works fairly well. The tasking software is better in the S80. The cruise audio in the S80 is just weird and annoying. Both require a lot of setup for your tastes and polar, which, of course gives them their versatility. When you update either, much of your hard work setting them up is either corrupted or erased. Inexcusable I say. They both work best as a back up and not as a primary navigation system. And the winner is. A toss up. If they fixed the cruise audio in the S80 I would give it the edge.
DLB

The instantaneous wind is of considerable value if you also use iGlide, which displays a wind vector in each 1 second lift dot. The resulting wind map of the thermal is useful for centering. I have also discovered frequent wind shears that can be exploited, that I would not have known about without it. The tasking software in the S80 does appear to be better, but neither is anywhere near as good as even a cheap PDA - as you say, a back up solution.