Police Chief vows to deploy an unmanned aerial vehicle despite contentions

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:50:38 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
wrote in
:

When you consider that 12-year-old kids can go to Wal-Mart and buy an electric
RC plane...complete with camera...for $150

Are you able to provide a link to the particular aircraft you
mentioned above?

Thank you.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
e.com...
snip:
: I believe this is what is known as "regulatory overreach."
:
: No, but they do control the airspace, as provided by Congress. And they do
: control who can fly and what they can fly. The statement is quite accurate.
:
: The FAA has allowed, up until now, radio controlled aircraft to fly. Guys
: like this police chief could get them all grounded.
:
: --
: Waddling Eagle
: World Famous Flight Instructor
:

Now that I agree with. I remember during the 2002 Olympics in SLC that RC planes were 'grounded' in a TFR-like
regulation for something like 50 miles around the Olympic site. As far as I know no-one challenged it?!?!

Some friends and I used to build battle robots for TV shows (I built Rosie
the Riveter for Robot Wars, etc) and we were contacted recently about doing
something like this for an LEA in a different state. Needless to say, it's
a back-burner project. Disappointing, 'cause I was looking forward to
trying out the prototypes.




-c

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:27:31 GMT, Larry Dighera wrote:

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 17:50:38 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
wrote in
:

When you consider that 12-year-old kids can go to Wal-Mart and buy an electric
RC plane...complete with camera...for $150

Are you able to provide a link to the particular aircraft you
mentioned above?

http://www.estesrockets.com/products.php?number=4127

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4196237

Target and other stores sell an F-16 that goes like a bat out of bleeding
hell...not a very good starter plane, but it's what I learned to fly these
"foamies" on, and the F-16 is damn near indestructible. One of my EAA friends
happened to be there on the first day I flew it. He said, "I've known you for
fifteen years, and I've never heard you laugh like that."

One drawback to ALL of these is that the pitch control is backwards. The stick
controls *throttle*, not an elevator, so you push forward to climb. But they
all climb at their "normal" throttle settings, so you can ignore pitch control
while you learn how to control direction. You're definitely out of the control
for the first couple of flights...but that's most of the fun.

Ron Wanttaja

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:13:16 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
wrote in
:

http://www.estesrockets.com/products.php?number=4127

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4196237

Target and other stores sell an F-16 that goes like a bat out of bleeding
hell...not a very good starter plane, but it's what I learned to fly these
"foamies" on, and the F-16 is damn near indestructible. One of my EAA friends
happened to be there on the first day I flew it. He said, "I've known you for
fifteen years, and I've never heard you laugh like that."

One drawback to ALL of these is that the pitch control is backwards. The stick
controls *throttle*, not an elevator, so you push forward to climb. But they
all climb at their "normal" throttle settings, so you can ignore pitch control
while you learn how to control direction. You're definitely out of the control
for the first couple of flights...but that's most of the fun.

Ron Wanttaja

Thanks.

Walmart is out of stock, but I did find a better price he
http://marketplace.hgtv.com/View_Lis...d=1439-N608153

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:27:43 -0800, Richard Riley
wrote in
:

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 01:09:32 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:28:48 -0800, Richard Riley
wrote in
:


My company has many people working full time on COA's to allow our
various unmanned aircraft to fly outside the limits of the AMA
exemption.

http://www.uavm.com/uavregulatory/ce...orization.html

On this page:
http://www.uavm.com/uavregulatory/ai...ification.html
This link is broken:
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert...iment/uas_faq/

Here is the updated link:
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert...s/uas/uas_faq/

What does a special airworthiness certificate in the experimental
category allow me to do?

The operating limitations issued with this type of certificate
allow a UA to be operated only within the line of sight of an
observer, during daylight hours and when other aircraft are not in
the vicinity.


According to this General Atomics blurb:


http://www.ga-asi.com/news.php?subac..._from=&ucat=1&
Today Altair routinely operates in NAS under a national
Certificate of Authorization (COA) which allows it to fly in
restricted airspace during takeoff and landing before quickly
ascending to altitudes high above commercial air traffic. Under
its new one-year experimental certificate, Altair will not only be
able to fly at higher altitudes, but also expands its geographic
operations. Similar to a COA, an UAS experimental certificate
contains certain conditions that must be met to ensure a level of
safety equivalent to manned aircraft operations in the NAS. This
includes “good weather” conditions and a requirement for a pilot
and observer, both of whom may either be on the ground or in an
accompanying “chase” plane. While COAs are issued to the customer
(e.g. NASA, NOAA), the experimental certificate has been issued
directly to GA-ASI, providing it with the opportunity to use
Altair for company purposes such as experimental flight testing,
marketing demonstrations and crew training.


Operation of their Altair must:

"ensure a level of safety equivalent to manned aircraft operations
in the NAS."

So I suppose that means, that at altitude it must be accompanied by a
manned chase plane, and that ensures that the UAV operates with the
equivalent margin of safely as a "flight of two." Is that correct?

That's one way to do it. Another way is to fly entirely within
restricted areas - that's what CBP is doing on the southern border
with their Pred B

While that may work fairly well along narrow strips of airspace along
the US borders, such a policy is going to amount to a huge airspace
grab if implemented in other areas of the CONUS.

In our testing we're keeping visual contact with the bird from an
observer on the ground. If another airplane is in the area we see and
avoid him - but from the ground.

I suppose that would be nearly the "level of safety equivalent to
manned aircraft operations," But it does add another member to the
ground crew. How many personnel would that make to operate the UAV?

Of course, that means our testing area in pretty small.

Due to the angle and haze in the atmosphere the testing area could be
quite limited at times, considering the speeds involved and the time
required to see the conflicting aircraft, recognize it as a factor,
input the control commands, and have the UAV actually maneuver out of
the way.

One unusual way, that has been done, is to put the observer in the
back seat of a convertable, and fly parallel to the highway.

So that method requires a second additional ground crew member to do
the driving. UAV operations are a bit labor intensive at this stage
of their development, aren't they.