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#21
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Basic Training Gliders
At 01:18 05 December 2005, Bob Korves wrote: Yes, the DG trimmer control is cr@p, in all the DG's I have flown. Also the very stiff aileron control in the 1000 -- takes both hands on the stick to enter a thermal. The front seat of the 1000 is quite comfortable, but the back seat is like sitting on a toilet. The Duo has a few minor faults, but the visibility is superb from both cockpits and the handling is light and well balanced, nore like a single seater. -Bob Korves Bob, The ailerons on our DG1000 are not at all heavy, and it has the most nicely co-ordinated controls of any two seater glider I have ever flown (Duo is also nice). Have you tried oiling the hinges? Derek Copeland |
#22
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Basic Training Gliders
Derek
Try adjusting the sitting position to suit you before you fly in the thing. Most instructors tend to hop and fly without getting things right. The number of times I have people whinging about the **** poor this and the crap that and I find that they havn't even noticed something is adjustable to alleviate that issue. The rear seat of the 1000 is adjustable up and down. I am 6'4 and have no trouble sitting too low in the back of our 1000 if I don't raise the seat. In fact the first time I flew it from the rear I assumed I would need the seat bottomed out. Big mistake! I couldn't see and could only just reach the rudder pedals. I felt like I was in a pit. Next flight adjusted the seat till my head just cleared the canopy and things where totally different. Far better vis Anyways, I don't believe there ever will be the perfect trainer. Too many opinions and not enough manufacturers to ever sort this issue out. Its all a compromise. But hows this for a spec. ( Feel free to add ) 1.Benign enough that a student could learn to fly it and not get into trouble after only 10 flights but with the flick off a switch becomes the spin trainer from Hell. 2.Heavy enough to penetrate upwind into 30knts to the next wave band and light enough to be rigged single-handed by a little old lady. 3.Low enough to the ground to allow entry by height challenged ATC cadets but with a enough ground clearance and U/C travel to permit 15 ft flares with associated stall and arrivals without spinal readjustment. I actually did an instructional flight in the back seat of a DG1000 today, and was reminded how poor the forward visibility from the rear cockpit is. You have to peer though a small semi-circular gap between the canopy hoop, the front headrest and the student's head. The forward view is far worse than in a K13 with its one piece canopy, and not helped by the fact that you sit fairly low down in the cockpit. I think that I will make a point of only flying this type with well switched on students who keep a good look out! I suppose that it's a case of what is the greater risk. Whiplash in the event of a crash or heavy landing, or a head on mid-air collision with another aircraft because you can't see ahead? BTW I don't dislike the DG1000. It handles and performs beautifully, it has good airbrakes (unlike the Duo Discus), it is fully aerobatic in 18 metre mode (unlike the Duo) and you can operate the undercarriage from both cockpits (unlike the Duo). BUT, I don't like the restricted view from the rear cockpit, the difficult and heavy ground handling, getting in and out of the thing, and the trigger type trimmer mounted on the stick that doesn't seem to work. You end up trimming with the trimmer tell-tale knob on the side of the cockpit wall, so why bother with the trigger in the first place? Good try for the ideal trainer DG, but no cigar yet! Derek Copeland P.S. The r.a.s. black hole seems to re-appeared. this is my third attempt at posting this! |
#23
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Basic Training Gliders
Derek Copeland wrote:
The ailerons on our DG1000 are not at all heavy, and it has the most nicely co-ordinated controls of any two seater glider I have ever flown (Duo is also nice). Have you tried oiling the hinges? Having flown the same DG1000, I have to agree with Bob, the ailerons are quite heavy, although not quite as heavy as the DG505 I flew. Neither of us belong to the clubs that own these gliders, so we can't attest to the quality of the maintenance (but the 1000 is less than 3 years old). I normally like DG handling (I've owned a 101 and a 303), but the two seaters are simply not as pleasant to fly as the Duo... Marc |
#24
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Basic Training Gliders
Derek Copeland wrote in
: At 01:18 05 December 2005, Bob Korves wrote: Yes, the DG trimmer control is cr@p, in all the DG's I have flown. Also the very stiff aileron control in the 1000 -- takes both hands on the stick to enter a thermal. (snip) -Bob Korves Bob, The ailerons on our DG1000 are not at all heavy, and it has the most nicely co-ordinated controls of any two seater glider I have ever flown (Duo is also nice). Have you tried oiling the hinges? Derek Copeland The one I flew was very stiff. It was just OK in straight flight and when established in a thermal. To achieve a brisk roll with full stick deflection during thermal entry required both hands on the stick. Pitch forces were much lighter. The glider I flew had several hundred hours over several years. It may indeed need the controls lubed or some other maintenance performed. BTW, the one I flew had the retractable three wheel set-up, and the ground handling was very good, better than a Grob 103 Twin II (or a Duo). The 1000 also does very nice loops and wingovers (20m). I have it on very good authority that the Duo does very nice loops and wingovers, too, despite the prohibition on the placard... -Bob Korves |
#25
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Basic Training Gliders
Bob Korves bkorves@winfirstDECIMALcom wrote in
. 44: Derek Copeland wrote in : At 01:18 05 December 2005, Bob Korves wrote: Yes, the DG trimmer control is cr@p, in all the DG's I have flown. Also the very stiff aileron control in the 1000 -- takes both hands on the stick to enter a thermal. (snip) -Bob Korves Bob, The ailerons on our DG1000 are not at all heavy, and it has the most nicely co-ordinated controls of any two seater glider I have ever flown (Duo is also nice). Have you tried oiling the hinges? Derek Copeland The one I flew was very stiff. It was just OK in straight flight and when established in a thermal. To achieve a brisk roll with full stick deflection during thermal entry required both hands on the stick. Pitch forces were much lighter. The glider I flew had several hundred hours over several years. It may indeed need the controls lubed or some other maintenance performed. BTW, the one I flew had the retractable three wheel set-up, and the ground handling was very good, better than a Grob 103 Twin II (or a Duo). The 1000 also does very nice loops and wingovers (20m). I have it on very good authority that the Duo does very nice loops and wingovers, too, despite the prohibition on the placard... -Bob Korves I should also mention that we were flying in the Sierra Nevada mountains of California/Nevada on a day with 10+ knot thermals. Pullups into thermals were at 80-100+ knots. -Bob |
#26
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Basic Training Gliders
The end of the ailerons slotting into the socket in the end of the little
ailerons on the 20 mtr tips tend to attract dirt. ( as they usually have grease or vaseline on them )They need to be cleaned and lubricated quite regularly. This helps. Paul "Bob Korves" bkorves@winfirstDECIMALcom wrote in message . 44... Derek Copeland wrote in : At 01:18 05 December 2005, Bob Korves wrote: Yes, the DG trimmer control is cr@p, in all the DG's I have flown. Also the very stiff aileron control in the 1000 -- takes both hands on the stick to enter a thermal. (snip) -Bob Korves Bob, The ailerons on our DG1000 are not at all heavy, and it has the most nicely co-ordinated controls of any two seater glider I have ever flown (Duo is also nice). Have you tried oiling the hinges? Derek Copeland The one I flew was very stiff. It was just OK in straight flight and when established in a thermal. To achieve a brisk roll with full stick deflection during thermal entry required both hands on the stick. Pitch forces were much lighter. The glider I flew had several hundred hours over several years. It may indeed need the controls lubed or some other maintenance performed. BTW, the one I flew had the retractable three wheel set-up, and the ground handling was very good, better than a Grob 103 Twin II (or a Duo). The 1000 also does very nice loops and wingovers (20m). I have it on very good authority that the Duo does very nice loops and wingovers, too, despite the prohibition on the placard... -Bob Korves |
#27
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Basic Training Gliders
In article ,
Derek Copeland wrote: Also on the good visibility from the back seat, which is another failing of the DG1000. The front cockpit has a largish headrest that almost completely blocks the forward view from the rear cockpit. I Strange. I've only had one flight in a DG1000, but it was from the back seat and I did the tow and landing and had no problem at all. In fact I thought it was an extremely nice glider to fly from the back, compared to the Twin Astir or Janus that I normally fly. -- Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+- Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O---------- |
#28
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Basic Training Gliders
Bruce Hoult wrote: it was an extremely nice glider to fly from the back, compared to the Twin Astir or Janus that I normally fly. -- Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+- Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O---------- Is that the WGC Janus and Astir Bruce? If so I've been trying to raise someone at the club for some time now. No reply to emails. If you can help me out that would be cool. My 2 cents on the trainer question... I love the IS-2B2 Lark! I'm sure some will say I'm nuts but I don't think you can beat it for the money. Great rear seat vis. Good performance, flaps and gear for advanced training, aerobatic, built like a tank, looks cool, handles nice. Mine just came off major overhaul so all control circuit bearings are good, no stiff ailerons here! I can go from trailer to flight (or reverse) in 1.5 hours with 2 people (3 better, more too many) with no fancy rigging aids. Price comparable to Blanik L-13! Life limit iinspection is not the horror many believe. Only downside, and it's an issue, is factory support. They are slow. This may be one of the main reasons the Lark hasn't become a more appreciated and utilized trainer. Unfortunate. If IAR would get it's act together there would be no reason to drop $40k on a Grob or whatever a K21 or Owl costs. I wouldn't even look at a Blanik or Peregrine. Matt Michael CFIG SSA Master Instructor FAA Aviation Safety Counselor Soaring Safety Foundation Advisor Chief Instructor Central Iowa Glider Club (www.knightglider.com) Woodstock N20609 "Wanders Wonder" IS-28B2 Lark N28DG |
#29
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Basic Training Gliders
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#30
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Whiplash (was Basic Training Gliders)
Don Johnstone wrote:
I suppose if an impact in a glider is severe enough to cause the whiplash then that injury may be the least of your problems as you are much closer to the crash in a glider that you are in a car. There is less of a crumple zone than in a car, but most well designed gliders will absorb some energy in the nose and cockpit area during impact that will protect you to a certain extent. Whiplash injury is therefore indeed an issue. Even a groundloop during an outlanding can give a whiplash and a good headrest is an important safety feature. Nils |
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