Basic Training Gliders

Buy a PW-6U and eliminate ballast needs :))

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). wrote:
There are two approved methods of adding rear ballast to the K21 to move the
C. of G. aft.

It is possible to fit a lead ballast block in the rear fuselage just aft of
the fin spar, this is not intended to be fitted or removed between flights,
and of course the machine must be re-weighed..

It is also possible to have a hole through the fin to take a bar to carry
external ballast in the form of up to 10 x 1kg lead weights, which is
intended to be adjusted or removed between flights as required. See
"optional extras" on the specification sheet at
http://www.as-segelflugzeuge.de/englisch/e_main.htm , "Your Sailplane", "ASK
21", at the bottom of the page "Download Info:", "Specification ASK 21
(english)".

Both schemes are described in the owners' handbook. See also the
Schleicher AD and Technical notes
http://www.as-segelflugzeuge.de/englisch/e_main.htm "TN/LTA", "ASK 21" in
particular TN-No 4 &4a, see also "further TN/AD see overview (PDF)".

Note also that in common with all German gliders (as far as I know) the
minimum front cockpit weight is always shown as 70 kg (154 lbs). However
if the glider is carefully weighed it may be found that the minimum front
cockpit load calculated by moments when flown solo is less than this. Of
course the minimum front cockpit load calculated by moments will always be
reduced when there is a rear seat pilot, by an amount which increases as the
rear cockpit load is increased.

The importance of all this is that the glider will not hold a stable spin
unless the C. of G. is close to the aft limit (the numbers are in the
handbook), but you will be in trouble if you fly it with the C. of G. aft of
the aft limit.

Don't even think of trying for a full spin, or flying with the C. of G. well
aft unless you have read the pilots' manual AMENDED BY TN 23. The TN
itself is on the Schleicher web-site but the page amendments are not.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"Markus Gayda" wrote in message
...

For the ASK-21 is a "spin-weight" available which can be installed on the
rudder. Of course you have to weigh the pilots before deciding which
weights to add to the glider.

But then you have a very nice trainer with which you can also train spins.

CU
Markus

'Whiplash' cervical injuries come from a rear impact
where the head lags the forward accelerated body and
then whips forward injuring the ligaments and/or muscles
at the back of the neck (and causing a movement towards
the lawyer's office). The head restraint in a road
car limits the rearward head motion, absorbs some energy
and thus reduces the forward whiplash.

A frontal impact, or a groundloop in a glider might
cause a neck injury but the headrest behind the pilot
won't help much. That's why they need to have those
driver attached anti-forward-movement head restraints
for F1 racing drivers.


At 09:18 05 December 2005, Nils Hoeimyr wrote:
Don Johnstone wrote:

I suppose if an impact in a glider is severe enough
to cause the whiplash then that injury may be the
least
of your problems as you are much closer to the crash
in a glider that you are in a car.

There is less of a crumple zone than in a car, but
most well designed gliders will absorb
some energy in the nose and cockpit area during
impact that will protect you to a certain extent.
Whiplash injury is therefore indeed an issue.
Even a groundloop during an outlanding can give
a whiplash and a good headrest is an important
safety feature.

Nils

This completely misses the point.

If you have a K21, I was explaining how you can make it spinnable when flown
at normal loads.

If you want a two seater which will do a good spin demonstration without
ballast then there are several machines which are suitable; the most obvious
is the Puchacz which is why the British Gliding Association own one
specifically for instructor coaching.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"Charles Yeates" wrote in message
...

Buy a PW-6U and eliminate ballast needs :))

At 02:00 05 December 2005, Paul wrote:
Derek
Try adjusting the sitting position to suit you before
you fly in the thing.
Most instructors tend to hop and fly without getting
things right. The
number of times I have people whinging about the ****
poor this and the crap
that and I find that they havn't even noticed something
is adjustable to
alleviate that issue.
The rear seat of the 1000 is adjustable up and down.
I am 6'4 and have no
trouble sitting too low in the back of our 1000 if
I don't raise the seat.
In fact the first time I flew it from the rear I assumed
I would need the
seat bottomed out. Big mistake! I couldn't see and
could only just reach the
rudder pedals. I felt like I was in a pit. Next flight
adjusted the seat
till my head just cleared the canopy and things where
totally different. Far
better vis

-------------------------------------
The original adjustable rear seat, which was a hinged
device held up by a seat belt strap with an adjustable
buckle, has been removed from our DG1000 and replaced
with a High Density Foam safety cushion, as the CFI
and the Committee felt it was poorly engineered and
dangerous. Indeed the strap adjuster broke during the
brief period we had a demonstrator on trial for evaluation,
even without any heavy landings. So I am afraid the
option that Paul suggests is not open to me. By the
way getting permission to do this simple modification
cost the club a small fortune, because we had to get
it approved and certified by EASA! F***ing Bureaucrats
and F***ing European Commission again!

I am 5' 10' tall with a fairly long back, but short
legs, so I am quite tall sitting down. I regularly
instruct in the K13, K21, Duo Discus, Grob G103, Bocian,
and now the DG1000. The best forward view from the
rear cockpit is offered by the K13 and the Duo Discus
which both have one piece canopies, and the Bocian
which has a large front canopy and flies in a rather
nose down attitude. The K21, Grob 103 and DG1000 all
have two piece canopies with a hoop in between them
which somewhat restricts the forward view, especially
in the case of the DG which seems to have a narrower
cockpit and the hoop further forward. It is definitely
the worst of the bunch in this respect!

I will try a few extra cushions under my backside next
time I fly it, as sitting higher probably would improve
my view forward.

Can I add a one-piece canopy to my wish list?

Derek Copeland

"Derek Copeland" wrote in
message ...
The advanced training requirement is very well covered
by such gliders as the Duo Discus, DG500/1000, ASH
25, but there doesn't seem to a modern equivalent of
the K13 for basic training! Unless anybody knows of
one that is?

Could I suggest the following specification:

1) Safe and easy to fly
2) Simple fixed gear undercarriage
3) Easy ground handling (our club is now buying retractable
gear DG1000s, but they are a complete pain on the ground)
4) Fully aerobatic, including good spinning characteristics
5) Must be capable of flying all the exercises in the
training syllabus
6) Enough performance to make reasonable cross-country
flights, but not so much as to make it difficult to
get students down.
7) Small enough for easy hangarage - wingspan not more
than 17 or 18 metres.

I would also add that the perfect trainer has an airframe that you can
leave out in the weather 24/7 (or at least all day). Trainers usually are
tied down near the launch point so they are ready to go at a moment's
notice. Often there is not a handy hanger, and rigging,derigging several
times a day is simply out of the question. Present-day machines that I
would consider leaving out in the weather include the Blanik, Krosno, and
(naturally) the 2-33.

The trainer itself is also part of your promotial plan to attract new
students, so it should preferably at least look like a modern glider. That
leaves out the 2-33.

Vaughn

I have now tried flying from the rear seat of the DG1000
with some extra safety cushions under me. Sitting higher
does indeed improve the view forward quite markedly,
especially as I can now see over the top of the front
seat headrest.

Derek Copeland
----------------

At 02:00 05 December 2005, Paul wrote:
Derek
Try adjusting the sitting position to suit you before
you fly in the thing.
Most instructors tend to hop and fly without getting
things right. The
number of times I have people whinging about the ****
poor this and the crap
that and I find that they havn't even noticed something
is adjustable to
alleviate that issue.
The rear seat of the 1000 is adjustable up and down.
I am 6'4 and have no
trouble sitting too low in the back of our 1000 if
I don't raise the seat.
In fact the first time I flew it from the rear I assumed
I would need the
seat bottomed out. Big mistake! I couldn't see and
could only just reach the
rudder pedals. I felt like I was in a pit. Next flight
adjusted the seat
till my head just cleared the canopy and things where
totally different. Far
better vis

-------------------------------------
The original adjustable rear seat, which was a hinged
device held up by a seat belt strap with an adjustable
buckle, has been removed from our DG1000 and replaced
with a High Density Foam safety cushion, as the CFI
and the Committee felt it was poorly engineered and
dangerous. Indeed the strap adjuster broke during the
brief period we had a demonstrator on trial for evaluation,
even without any heavy landings. So I am afraid the
option that Paul suggests is not open to me. By the
way getting permission to do this simple modification
cost the club a small fortune, because we had to get
it approved and certified by EASA! F***ing Bureaucrats
and F***ing European Commission again!

I am 5' 10' tall with a fairly long back, but short
legs, so I am quite tall sitting down. I regularly
instruct in the K13, K21, Duo Discus, Grob G103, Bocian,
and now the DG1000. The best forward view from the
rear cockpit is offered by the K13 and the Duo Discus
which both have one piece canopies, and the Bocian
which has a large front canopy and flies in a rather
nose down attitude. The K21, Grob 103 and DG1000 all
have two piece canopies with a hoop in between them
which somewhat restricts the forward view, especially
in the case of the DG which seems to have a narrower
cockpit and the hoop further forward. It is definitely
the worst of the bunch in this respect!

I will try a few extra cushions under my backside next
time I fly it, as sitting higher probably would improve
my view forward.

Can I add a one-piece canopy to my wish list?

Derek Copeland