23 July OSH accident audio

In article ,
"Bob Gardner" wrote:

My point was that listening to audio or viewing video does nothing to help
Joe Sixpack avoid similar accidents.

This isn't about avoiding similar accidents since we do not yet know
what happened. It is about dealing with the post-accident situation and
paying attention to how ATC sorted things out. What they did right and
what they did wrong to make things work better in the future.

"john smith" wrote in message
...
: In article ,
: "RST Engineering" wrote:
:
: Listening to stupidities flying in I can handle. Listening to someone die
: isn't on my list.
:
: Jim, you don't "hear anyone dieing!"
: What you hear is how the FAA failed to share information with the pilots
: via ATIS and the FISKE controllers. This was why there was a meltdown in
: the Green Lake hold. For three hours, no one knew what was going on. Had
: the pilots and controllers been informed, many people probably would
: have headed for outlying airports to wait it out. Instead, there was a
: second near disaster on another runway after they started emptying the
: holding areas. This is a lesson learned situation.

Yea, I was flying in just about this time and there was no comment or anything on the ATIS to indicate the airport was
closed or at saturation. There were a lot of planes circling south of green lake, and the controller was saying the
airport was closed for another 20 minutes. I was passing north of Milwaukee about that time so I slowed it down a bit
(in a C-172, ok, a lot) to about 75 knots and kept on listening. As I got closer in I kept hearing that the airport was
closed for another 20 minutes, etc. I diverted to Fond Du Lac and picked up some gas and waited around for about 45
minutes. No-one there knew anything had happened either and the temporary tower knew nothing (or they weren't letting on
that they knew anything).

I popped back out just before the racers came in to Fond Du Lac, still listening, and they were still stacked up all
around green lake. I flew around it twice and we had a nice spacing so a string of us went on in towards fiske and
finally landed...

"Jim Burns" wrote in message ...
: Hey I know... let's not listen to it.
: Instead let's lambaste the poster.
: The reasons TO listen center around the male and female tower controllers
: who I think did a wonderful job handling the traffic that they were faced
: with. What you will hear is how the tower closed the runway, redirected
: landing 27 traffic to 36, then closed the airport, had pattern traffic hold
: in the pattern, additional traffic hold east of the airport, more traffic
: holding SW of the airport, more holding over the lake and or sent them back
: outbound for the RIPON arrival. Once 36 was re-opened they also had to deal
: with IFR arrivals from Chicago Center. The tower guys are to be commended
: for what they accomplished in very short order and with a high degree of
: calm and professional mannerisms.
:
: What you will not hear are the FISKE controllers. That's the archive that
: needs to be obtained, posted, and critiqued. It's my understanding from
: people that were involved in the multi-hour hold that they were not informed
: of the accident, not given any reason for the runway closure, nor were they
: told when they could be expected to be released from the hold. Promises of
: "we'll get you down as fast as we can" and "we'll get you in, just keep
: holding" were common but no estimations of how long they'd be holding were
: given. A small amount of info would have saved much frustration.
:
:
: Attention all aircraft inbound from RIPON or holding at FISKE, Green Lake,
: or Rush Lake.
: The Oshkosh airport is closed due to an accident.
: There are aircraft holding at several locations and altitudes east of the
: airport, once the airport is open we need to clear the airspace by getting
: those aircraft down first.
: We do not know when we will be able to release you from the hold.
: If you are unprepared or unable to hold for an undetermined length of time,
: we suggest leaving the hold for an alternate airport.
:
: Easy announcement. Although every pilot must determine his own comfort
: level and has the ability to "bug out" when it comes to holding with minimal
: information about the reason or the length of the hold, the FISKE
: controllers could have provided information that would have decreased the
: frustration level and added a level of understanding.
:
: Jim
:
:
:

Now that I think about it, I do recall hearing the ripon controllers say, once anyway, that there was an accident and a
runway was closed. That was about the extent of it however...

Just for my nosiness, why are we calling Fisk Fiske now?

Jim

"RST Engineering" wrote in message ...
: Just for my nosiness, why are we calling Fisk Fiske now?
:
: Jim
:
:

That is the intersection waypoint name.

Now that I think about it, I do recall hearing the ripon controllers say, once anyway, that there was an accident and a
runway was closed. That was about the extent of it however...

I was in that cluster-f*ck of a "hold" around first Green, and then
Rush, lakes, and no controller explained anything during our time in
that blender.

It looked like a scene from "Hell's Angels" -- and it all could have
been made MUCH better simply by a controller saying "Guys, there's been
an accident." All of the angry, frustrated folks (who were literally
SHOUTING at one another on the FISK frequency -- a first, believe me)
would have instantly cooled their jets, and a whole bunch of them would
have diverted to another airport.

Instead, FISK just kept saying "it'll be a bit longer" -- and the swarm
just kept growing and growing. Some guys were saying that they held
in that race track for two HOURS. I held for around an hour, and it
was simply nuts.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article ,
"RST Engineering" wrote:

Just for my nosiness, why are we calling Fisk Fiske now?

FAA has standardize to ICAO five character intersection names.
RIPON and FISKE are now intersections in the FAA database.

Sorry. IFR/VFR thing. There is FISKE fix at Fisk. 6 DME on the OSH 247R.
I practice approaches at OSH and use FISKE as a lead in/setup/non published
hold fix. Want to practice a hold near OSH without tying up their fixes or
approaches? FISKE works. Although not on the plates it also gives Chicago
an idea what my route is before I request the approach(s). There is also a
DME fix called RIPON at Ripon.

Jim


"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
Just for my nosiness, why are we calling Fisk Fiske now?

Jim

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...

Just for my nosiness, why are we calling Fisk Fiske now?


FISKE is 6 DME from OSH on the 247 radial.

That may well be, but Fisk has strobes, controllers under a beach umbrella,
railroad tracks, and grass. You proceed from Ripon to Fisk, not from RIPON
to FISKE.

Jim



"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...

Just for my nosiness, why are we calling Fisk Fiske now?


FISKE is 6 DME from OSH on the 247 radial.