VF Question

What's the number of the VF squadron with the rising sun as a logo?
Are they the Sundowners? 4 of their F4s were on a loran drop with me
and my flight in 72 near Khe San in March of 72.
Walt BJ

From: (WaltBJ)
Date: 4/13/2004 12:00 Pacific Daylight Time

What's the number of the VF squadron with the rising sun as a logo?

That would be VF-111 - axed in 1995 when CVW-15 was disestablished.

Are they the Sundowners?

yes

4 of their F4s were on a loran drop with me
and my flight in 72 near Khe San in March of 72.

That was during the squadron's Nov. 71 - Jul. 72 deployment aboard Coral Sea.

MW

VF-111, Sundowners, you are correct, sir.
Stephen
http://www.stephenmudgett.com

WaltBJ wrote:

What's the number of the VF squadron with the rising sun as a logo?
Are they the Sundowners? 4 of their F4s were on a loran drop with me
and my flight in 72 near Khe San in March of 72.
Walt BJ

"WaltBJ" wrote in message
om...

What's the number of the VF squadron with the rising sun as a logo?
Are they the Sundowners?


That wouldn't make any sense at all.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote...

What's the number of the VF squadron with the rising sun as a logo?
Are they the Sundowners?

That wouldn't make any sense at all.

Your point? They ARE fighter pilots...

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message link.net...
"WaltBJ" wrote in message
om...

What's the number of the VF squadron with the rising sun as a logo?
Are they the Sundowners?


That wouldn't make any sense at all.

The last iteration of VF-111 in 1959 adopted the insignia of the first
VF-111 whose lineage went back to VF-11, established on 1 August 1942.
The VF-11 Squadron insignia was a sun setting into the ocean being
shot down by two diving F4F's. This insignia was the official
squadron insignia for VF-11 and its successors, including both
VF-111's. The business with the "rising sun" was the marking
sometimes painted on the vertical stabilizer of some of the squadron's
later jets, F4's, F-14's and so on. Rather gaudy, but not the
official insignia. Kind of dates to the days when some thought some
of our friends on the far side of the pond might take some offense at
the implication of a sun being shot down. The name Sun Downers (note
two words, not one) had that obvious implication and also referred to,
from the days of a sailing navy, a Sun Downer which was a sailor or,
in plural, a crew that was hard working and worked until the sun set
rather than until the sun crossed the yardarm. My father was a pilot
in the original VF-11 and did the design work on the original
insignia.

The VF-11 was redesignated VF-11A on 15 November 1946 and as VF-111 on
15 July 1948. This VF-111 was disestablished on 19 January 1959.

The second VF-111 was established as VA-156 on 4 June 1956. It was
redesignated VF-111 on 20 Jan 1959. The new VF-111 adopted the
insignia of the old VF-111. The squadron was redesignated VF-26 on 1
September 1964 and then redesignated back to VF-111 on 17 September
1964. VF-111 was disestablished on 31 March 1995.

Regards,

Rich

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:OX0fc.136187$JO3.84364@attbi_s04...

Your point? They ARE fighter pilots...


So because they ARE fighter pilots they chose a rising sun to represent the
Sundowners? Are you saying fighter pilots are stupid?

Stephen,

That wouldn't make any sense at all.

Strictly speaking, you are correct. It represents the setting sun (sinking
fortunes) of the Japanese Empire. Later in the squadron's life this meaning
was lost as "corporate memory" of WWII gradually faded.

(This info was given to me by several Sundowners - we (VA-95) cruised with
them as part of CVW-15 in 1973.)

One person's sunset is another's sunrise though, in both literal and
figurative senses.

--
Mike Kanze

"The enemy should be in no doubt that we are his Nemesis and that we are
bringing about his rightful destruction."

- Lieutenant-Colonel Tim Collins, Royal Irish Battle Group, to his troops on
the eve of Operation Iraqi Freedom


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"WaltBJ" wrote in message
om...

What's the number of the VF squadron with the rising sun as a logo?
Are they the Sundowners?


That wouldn't make any sense at all.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote...

Your point? They ARE fighter pilots...

So because they ARE fighter pilots they chose a rising sun to represent the
Sundowners? Are you saying fighter pilots are stupid?

Nope.

Just because they may not make sense at times, doesn't make them stupid.

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:55:42 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:OX0fc.136187$JO3.84364@attbi_s04...

Your point? They ARE fighter pilots...


So because they ARE fighter pilots they chose a rising sun to represent the
Sundowners? Are you saying fighter pilots are stupid?

Maybe "rising sun" was a poor descriptor for "sun on the horizon"? How
can one tell by looking at a logo if they are looking a a depiction of
East horizon or West?

Fighter pilots are not stupid, but, they occasionally may be
disoriented. At least AF pilots can always orient themselves by the
base runway--for the poor nasal radiators the runway keeps moving and
turning.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8