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Fuse the Wire or Fuse the Device?
I am about to open a debate on fusing in Gliders. Which of the
following fusing methods do you believe should be used and why? 1) Place one fuse at the main battery sized to protect the wire. That is if the wire "fuses" (vaporizes) at 20A then the fuse should be 20A. Therefore it takes a 20A device fault to blow the fuse. 2) Place one fuse at the main battery sized to the devices being sourced. That is if all the devices being powered have a maximum draw of 5A, then the fuse should be 5A or slightly larger. Therefore it takes a 5A fault to blow the fuse. 3) Place one fuse at the main battery sized to protect the wire (see #1). Place one fuse at each device sized to the devices being sourced. 4) Place one fuse at the main battery sized to the devices being sourced (see #2). Place one fuse at each device sized to the devices being sourced. 5) fill in the blank Thanks, John |
#2
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I use 5A fuze at the battery and a 5A C/B for everything in the panel.
Don't ever remember blowing a fuse. I have had wires break, fuse holders not keep good contact, plugs fail to do their thing, etc. My latest problem was a "clunking" noise, turned out to be the plug at the end of a 6 inch battery lead, clunking against the deck. After about 10 flights of clunking, the wire broke at the end of the solder connection to the battery. Now have the plug epoxied to the battery. BTW, we need 2 batteries and 2 varios and 2 GPS's and 2 data loggers, etc to make everything 100 % reliable. When my wire broke I was 40 miles from home, switched the Borgelt B-40 to "internal" power and had a vario and audio to get old JJ back home. |
#3
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#4
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#5
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Thanks for everyone's comments and responses. Generally it seems that
people like; 1) One large fuse at the battery rated for the maximum load and not rated for the fusing potential of the wire. See comment #1 below 2) Several small fuses, one for each device, rated for that specific device. See comment #2 below. Thanks, John ========================= Comments #1 - Yes, it is to protect the wire as overheating from excessive load can melt the insulation before the wire fuses (melts) and can send caustic smoking into the cockpit. Moral: don't use any old wire, use Tefzel wire!! I suspect that the fuse needs to be rated 20% or more over the maximum load to deal with inrush current surges when you first hit the master switch. That being said some older devices have significant inrush currents but most new avionics were designed to have low or no significant surge currents. Only one way to tell, measure it. You do have a peak reading current meter handy don't you? See slo-blo fuse comment #3 below. Note the one comment about measuring all the MAXIMUM currents involved is done with vario(s) on and audio blaring, PDA charging with backlight on, computer at max gas and your transceiver transmitting. Is all that likely to happen at the same time? No, but we have to think worse case current draw. #2 - Calling the manufacturer or looking in the manual to find the proper fuse size and type seems a good idea. #3 - slo-blo fuse use - While a slo-blo fuse seems useful for devices with large inrush currents, there are two downsides to their use. First, they are slow...hence the name...like breakers. Thus the device you are trying to protect may not get protected in time. Second all fuses and breakers suffer a voltage drop across the fuse caused by the resistance of the fuse element. Volage drop means that some of the power of your battery is being wasted by heating the fuse and thus less energy (and voltage) is reaching your device. Wire suffers from this also, so generally keeping wire lengths shorter and gauges larger is better. However with slow-blow fuses and low amperage breakers the voltage drop is significantly higher than regular fuses. In an airplane with a generator, this may not be much of an issue but with the limited battery power we have in gliders I suggest sticking with regular fuses. #4 - Transponders - As this device transmitts more often than you are likely to do with your transceiver (and maybe continuously in high traffic areas), this will be a significant power drain. Because I live near a mode-C vail, I might have to add altitude encoding on top of that. Therefore I hope that we don't have to have them. Have there been accidents that would have been prevented if the glider had had a transponder? |
#6
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ContestID67 wrote:
#4 - Transponders - As this device transmitts more often than you are likely to do with your transceiver (and maybe continuously in high traffic areas), this will be a significant power drain. For the typical Microair or Becker installation, the best choices for gliders in the US, it's about 400 ma at idle. That rises to about 500 ma in areas of VERY heavy radar coverage, and another 100 ma in the winter to heat the encoder. The peak current demand is much smaller than a communication radio, but it's higher on average. Because I live near a mode-C vail, I might have to add altitude encoding on top of that. Therefore I hope that we don't have to have them. Have there been accidents that would have been prevented if the glider had had a transponder? No disasters like an airliner hitting a glider (at least in the US), but several collisions with general aviation aircraft and at least one fighter aircraft might have been avoided if the glider had used a transponder and the airplane pilot was in contact with ATC (IFR flight plan or using Flight Following). Or, if either one was using a transponder detector, the collisions might have been avoided. "A lot" of glider pilots in high traffic areas like Minden/Reno, Southern California, and elsewhere have installed transponders, so one could easily imagine some collisions have been avoided by doing so. It would be very hard to estimate how many. -- Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly Eric Greenwell Washington State USA |
#7
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ContestID67 wrote:
I am about to open a debate on fusing in Gliders. Which of the following fusing methods do you believe should be used and why? 4) Place one fuse at the main battery sized to the devices being sourced (see #2). Place one fuse at each device sized to the devices being sourced. I use a slow fuse somewhat bigger than the total my devices will draw on the battery. This prevents damage to the battery and the main wires to the instrument pannel. Note that it's hard to say at wich current your cable will melt. This is not only determined by the wire as it is when you just installed it, but also by the (soldering) connections, againg plastics, damaged isolation, the time a short circuit continues, etc. For each instrument on it's own, I have a faster fuse. 1 Amp for most of them. Now, if a device causes a problem, only that device will be out of order. The rest will continue to function just fine. You can use automatic fuses for these if you want. André |
#8
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I really like scenario # 3. Most of the time you'd be OK with just the
devices fused, but would you want to have an electrical fire in the glider at altitude, with oxygen floating around in the cockpit? I have mine fused as close to the battery as possible. I'm a telecom manager for a class 1 railroad, and we do all our installations with this fusing method. We have a lot of specialized electronics in locomotives and vehicles. We don't want electrical fires in any of those, either. Be safe up there... Jack Womack |
#9
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The fuse is there to protect the wiring not your devices. The best bet is to do the following: 1 Large fuse at the battery just bigger than all of your devices, take this to a fuse box and fuse individual devices at their correct current rating. ie if the device is rated at 1 amp fuse it at 1 amp. Do NOT fuse two devices from one larger fuse. Use the correct size wire for the current to be drawn, many nasty things can happen if you get to larger voltage drop along the wire and you start driving a 12 volt device with a lower voltage. Be aware that the fumes released by some wire is very toxic and you may find you need to leave an other wise perfectly serviceable aircraft for no other reason that you did not fuse your wires correctly. One other point, if the device blows a fuse the chances are that there is something wrong with it. Do not start putting larger fuses in the circuit get the item looked at. With speacial thanks to Steve K, who recently lectured on this subject on a Form 2 course I attended, I hope I did you justice Sean -- jorgie ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ] - A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they fly - |
#10
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I use scenario #3. In the UK it is mandatory to have
a fuse 'as close to the battery as possible' to protect the whole system and I use a 3 amp fuse. There is also a seperate fuse, rated to the individual instruments mainly to try and prevent one single instrument taking the whole system down. That does not always work as the only problem I have had was with a fault in the distribution box/power supply for the PDA/Logger/GPS. All the output leads from the box are fused but a fault in the box blew the main battery fuse. The power requirements of all my instruments are well below 3 amps. A standard battery is 7ah a current draw of 3 amps would flatten the battery in 2.5 hours (max) and this is one of the reasons why we are so set against adding further avionics such as transponders over this side of the pond. At 03:00 20 April 2005, Jack wrote: I really like scenario # 3. Most of the time you'd be OK with just the devices fused, but would you want to have an electrical fire in the glider at altitude, with oxygen floating around in the cockpit? I have mine fused as close to the battery as possible. I'm a telecom manager for a class 1 railroad, and we do all our installations with this fusing method. We have a lot of specialized electronics in locomotives and vehicles. We don't want electrical fires in any of those, either. Be safe up there... Jack Womack |
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