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#51
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"Kilo Charlie" wrote in message news:nEqab.42131$n94.18608@fed1read04... I suggest that glider pilots are, as a group, no where near as skilled as those pilots and to permit glider pilots to execute down to the deck high speed finishes at an airport does seem imprudent. The simple fact is we legislate good judgment all over the place and some glider pilots do not exercise good judgment. Ivan Hmmmm....I see no Ivan Kahn on the US Pilot Ranking List which means either you have never raced or maybe you're simply not giving us your real name. Sounds like you must know a lot about the skill level of racing pilots though. Too bad you won't be allowed to vote in the poll. Casey Lenox KC Phoenix I am not on the list and if racing pilots are so adverse to engaging in safe operations you never will. One need not be reckless to engage in fair, honest and challenging competition. And by the way, "racing" pilots only account for about 3.5% of SSA membership. And so perhaps you should avoid ****ing off the 96+% upon whom you rely to support your racing efforts by running the competitions, and from whom you might hope to one day encourage to join the ranks of "racing pilots" to keep that aspect of our sport alive. And yes, it is Ivan Kahn ATP, CFI, SSAI |
#52
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I am happy to let your comments speak for themselves.
"Kilo Charlie" wrote in message news:CmLbb.796$hp5.153@fed1read04... I've tried being reasonable, I've tried being logical, I've tried being persuasive to the "96+%" but the final line is that there are many of those folks that obviously know so much that none of those ways apply. You expounded upon the idea that we racing pilots are "no where near as skilled" as aerobatic pilots. In the first place that is an absurd comparison. In the second place having never raced yourself you must little to no personal knowledge of racing pilots so it makes your statement baseless. Although I have hundreds of aerobatic hours in both powered and glider aircraft I would never dream of getting on an aerobatic newsgroup and start tossing out opinions of how dangerous competitive aerobatics is having never competed. If it is not clear, I am sick and tired of folks such as you acting like we racing pilots are somehow beholding to you. As far as I'm concerned it is time to begin the process of separating US sailplane racing from the rest of it. Then you can have your own little world and legislate away. Casey Lenox KC Phoenix |
#53
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"BMacLean" wrote in message .. .
They could drive slower, have mandatory car separation and have to use blinkers to pass. And to make horse racing safer, they could stop putting those little men on the horses backs. But to be really safe, they just shouldn't race! I guess if you have nothing to say you rely on pointless (and humourless) satire. Tom |
#54
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So now we are "adrenaline junkies". Give me a break. I like to race, fly fast, fly far, and when it's safe, fly low. Some people like to race cars, or ski on glaciers, or whatever. No-one makes them do it at gunpoint. But why in soaring do some pilots feel compelled to force other pilots to meet their comfort level? In NO OTHER COMPETIVE SPORT is the nature of the competition dumbed down to the level of the weakest competitor, on the contrary, it is supposed to be a challenge to perform well. You are an "adrenaline junky" whether you like it or not. That is the hormone that gets released in these circumstances (it sure as hell isn't melatonine!). If you didn't get it you'ld say "that sure is boring" and go do something else. And tell me why I should give you a break; you don't give me any. You clearly don't like the word "junky", but I think it applies to you in the context of your previous posts. You prefer the word "thrill". So what, the result is the same. Hopefully, your instinct of self preservation kicks in before you kill yourself. It's well known in sky diving, for instance, that there is that select group that likes the thrill of the "low pull", some of which end up killing themselves. I don't know your age, but I would guess that it is 30ish; I happen to be a grandfather and fall into the "old pilot" category. I have had more than one near death experience, which tends to temper one's adventurism. I have had my share of experiences including mountain climbing (rock & ice), SCUBA diving, & car racing (besides flying). I don't happen to think that soaring is being "dumbed down"; maybe it is being "dumbed up". Contest are won out on course, not on the final glide. An optimized task will have you coming in at best glide speed. If you aren't aware of this I would suggest reading Moffet's book "Winning on the Wind", it could correct some misconceptions that you appear to have. You want to finish high, go ahead. But don't complain if I finish lower and faster. And I won't complain if I misjudge and land short. I won't complain unless you hit my parked glider like that one guy did. I would even help you retrieve your glider. Tom |
#55
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#56
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John
I have flown quite a few contest days with the 2 mile 500 foot finish. Here are my comments: 1. On a purely emotional level, I miss (and I'm sure the spectators do too) the 50 foot speed pass finish line. I know that you can still do one after you cross the ring but in practice most people just come in and land. 2. On a practical basis, it leads to more heads down flying. Most people do a 50 foot speed pass finish completely heads up (maybe an airspeed check once in a while). The ring puts your head in the cockpit. The optimum finish is still at 501 feet and max airspeed. You just can't judge this 2 miles out without a lot of heads down work. 3. On a global perspective, this rule is just a bandaid that necessitates more bandaids. I did not like it when Charlie started adding 3 minutes to your time for rolling finishes under the ring and now you are adding another bandaid by saying you don't get speed points if you go under the ring. The bandaids go on and on. What about the contestant that has the fastest speed, crosses the ring at 110 knots but does it at 499 feet. Distance points only? The harsh 100 point turnpoint penalty had to have its own bandaid for missing the turnpoint by 15 feet, that will have to happen here too. The bandaids keep going on and on for the finish ring. As you can see I am against the finish ring. I do, however propose a different solution for low energy finishes. Bring the exciting heads up speed pass finish line back and solve the low energy problem with some sort of finish line groundspeed minimum or minimum altitude to achieve after the finish line. Don't have harsh point penalty steps in the solution either. After all the main reason people are tempted to do a low energy finish is the harsh point penalty associated with a landout. Maybe thats what should be addressed! Just my 2 cents Dale Kramer K1 |
#57
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I've been following all these responses with interest, but I feel we
have lost some of the forest in looking at the leaves on the trees. The point where a glider race ends is arbitrary. We can end the race -- calculate speed and give speed points -- for any landing within a 5 mile circle of the home airport. We can end the race as we do now, at the airport fence. We can end the race 500 feet up. It's the same for everybody. Where we end the race has no effect at all on the competitive, soaring aspect. Adjust your arrival margin accordingly. Now, given this is a totally arbitrary choice, doesn't it make a little sense to end the race 500 feet away from the cold hard ground? John Cochrane |
#58
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John wrote.
Now, given this is a totally arbitrary choice, doesn't it make a little sense to end the race 500 feet away from the cold hard ground? I agree completely, John. Now lets talk about the penalty for arriving at 490 feet? Distance only? Isn't that a bit harsh? JJ Sinclair |
#59
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#60
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Everyone keeps saying "we need simple rules!" Well, here is a place to get them: throw out all the graduated penalties and set your own limits. Or do people not really mean it about simple rules? Or not have any new rules at all! John Cochrane BB |
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