Aviation crash videos on-line

Dear Dudley,

I notice that you only reply to the few parts of messages of which you FEEL
to have the right on your side. Any other parts of the message you just
leave unanswered. To me it is clear that you are only shouting your opinion,
and are not ready to discuss the arguments that are put forward by anybody.
I call that ignorant.

Furthermore I would like to take the opportunity to thank everybody who have
sent personal replies, especially since most of them were very positive.

Cheers,
Iwan




"Dudley Henriques" schreef in bericht
ink.net...

"Michael Wise" wrote in message
...
In article et,
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:


Objecting to the photographer who set up this site is not an attempt
to
sway people from visiting the site. That is an individual decision.
My
objection was simply stated to express my personal feelings about
people
who take these photos for entertainment...


Since you object to people shoot photos/film of such things for
commercial (entertainment) entertainment purposes can we expect to see
you rail on Discovery Channel et al? Or do you support the coverage
when
its all positive...but reject it when it portrays the periodic
mishaps?



--Mike

This, and your other post to me asking continuisly for an explanation of
my objections to the specific context of crash videos being discussed in
this thread are a perfect example of why I don't answer posts like
yours.
The answer has been plainly stated in other posts and is clear to anyone
with reasonable intelligence. Your constant demand that I repeat these
reasons because you "can't find the answer" isn't enough incentive for
me to repost an entire thought process for your personal conveinence.
That being said, I've pasted in below the EXACT answer to your constant
requests for that answer. If you can't get what I'm saying from this,
I'm sorry, I can't help you any further.

From a prior post by me and quite clear on the "why's";
The "ethics" that I was attacking and will always continue to attack are
not as clearly cut as you would like to have them. The physical act of
taking a picture at an air show disaster is only the tip of a large
iceberg. The REASON for taking that picture, and what the photographer
does with the picture after it's been taken is the area of my concern,
NOT the fact that the picture was taken per se, which seems to be the
crux of everything you have been attempting to "explain" to me.
There is nothing improper about taking photographs or filming a video
during an air race or air show disaster IF the reason for taking these
pictures isn't prurient. A video shot as a record of the event or to be
used as news of the event is one thing. That's ethical. A video of a
crash used in a safety program designed to help prevent the same
accident from happening again is more than ethical. It's advisable!
On the other hand, there are those who take these photographs and film
these videos for no other reason than their own prurient interest; a
record for them personally to "enjoy" watching and to pass on to others
in the public forum as their " the thrill of the day". Photographers who
use these photographs in their "hobby" and present them to the public
seeking only acclaim for their skill as photographers are completely
unethical to us in the airshow community. These people, displaying an
aspect of human nature that will unfortunately always be with us, are in
my opinion unethical. On the airshow circuit we think of them as human
leeches standing there with their cameras waiting for one of us to die
so they can catch the moment on film to later be released by them for
their own purpose unrelated to anything but their own amusement or
profit.
The only ethics involved with this issue are the ethics involved for the
reasons the camera shutter clicks. There are good reasons and there are
bad reasons. The photographers I have so strongly objected to are the
one's with the "bad" reasons; the thrill seekers; the "hobbyists".
Any race or airshow pilot will tell you that the existence of crash
video is a given, and we understand that there will be pictures if
something goes wrong for us. In a way, we welcome it, because it might
help save another pilot's life, but none of us accept the leech
photographers, the paparazzi type, who come to exploit us when something
goes wrong.
These "hobby" video people fit into the unethical category for us, and
yes, we detest them!
As for people outside the airshow community discussing an issue like
this one with us; everyone of course has the right to an opinion, but
it's better that you ASK, rather than TELL when you get into something
as close to the show community as this issue. That's just a friendly
suggestion. Pilots from the community don't mind opposing viewpoint. We
do however, like a pilot to have some actual experience with what we do
before expressing that opinion too loudly :-)

If this doesn't answer what you keep "demanding" than you will just have
to get by on whatever floats your boat.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

For personal email, please
replace the at with what goes there and
take out the Z's please!
dhenriquesZatZearthZlinkZdotZnet

"Iwan Bogels" wrote in message
...
Dear Dudley,

I notice that you only reply to the few parts of messages of which you
FEEL
to have the right on your side. Any other parts of the message you
just
leave unanswered. To me it is clear that you are only shouting your
opinion,
and are not ready to discuss the arguments that are put forward by
anybody.
I call that ignorant.

I believe I've made my point about both you and your site quite clear.
I've freely engaged all comers on the issues both pro and con as they
have come up. As for avoiding dialog, I'll be happy to engage you on any
comment you wish to make. Go on; make your case!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

All right, I'll put it to you as straight forward as possible:

How can you be a demonstration pilot and object to people shooting and
shearing photos and videos of your actions, even if these include ultimate
****-ups resulting in many casualties ?

I'm very curious about your reply !

Iwan



"Dudley Henriques" schreef in bericht
ink.net...

"Iwan Bogels" wrote in message
...
Dear Dudley,

I notice that you only reply to the few parts of messages of which you
FEEL
to have the right on your side. Any other parts of the message you
just
leave unanswered. To me it is clear that you are only shouting your
opinion,
and are not ready to discuss the arguments that are put forward by
anybody.
I call that ignorant.

I believe I've made my point about both you and your site quite clear.
I've freely engaged all comers on the issues both pro and con as they
have come up. As for avoiding dialog, I'll be happy to engage you on any
comment you wish to make. Go on; make your case!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired

"Iwan Bogels" wrote in message
...
All right, I'll put it to you as straight forward as possible:

How can you be a demonstration pilot and object to people shooting and
shearing photos and videos of your actions, even if these include
ultimate
****-ups resulting in many casualties ?

I'm very curious about your reply !

Iwan

In the demonstration community we have no objection whatsoever to crash
video being used for the purpose of crash investigation or news
reporting. These things relate directly to the issues of flight safety.
Where on earth did you get the idea we objected to video being used in
this manner...surely not from me. I've stated this quite clearly in
prior posts.
As for the "****ups"; yes, they happen unfortunately, and when they do,
it's good to have a filmed record of the event.... which equates
completely with my above comment. In fact, we in the community encourage
filming of events for just this purpose. The photographers that take
these pictures however, don't push them on the net as you are doing, as
entertainment, with no news value or safety connection associated with
that effort.
Next!

Well Dudley,

In that case you could have simply written: "I hate it when people spread
aviation crash videos for other purpose than aviation safety issues". It
would have saved you a lot of unnecessary discussion.

As you will have understood, I see things a little differently. Having
witnessed a major aircraft crash in which 70 people got killed because a
demonstration pilot misjudged the situation, I use it for other purposes.

I hope more people are willing to share their crash video footage with me,
and I will continue to share it with other people via my website.
Furthermore I will keep announcing the video wepage at the newsgroups where
people might have an extra interest in viewing my videos. That would best
serve my personal purpose.

People can download the videos at http://www.dappa.nl-crash.htm and use it
for safety issues, viewing pleasure, collecting purposes or whatever other
goal they have. I won't judge them for the reason they look at it.

Iwan



"Dudley Henriques" schreef in bericht
ink.net...

"Iwan Bogels" wrote in message
...
All right, I'll put it to you as straight forward as possible:

How can you be a demonstration pilot and object to people shooting and
shearing photos and videos of your actions, even if these include
ultimate
****-ups resulting in many casualties ?

I'm very curious about your reply !

Iwan

In the demonstration community we have no objection whatsoever to crash
video being used for the purpose of crash investigation or news
reporting. These things relate directly to the issues of flight safety.
Where on earth did you get the idea we objected to video being used in
this manner...surely not from me. I've stated this quite clearly in
prior posts.
As for the "****ups"; yes, they happen unfortunately, and when they do,
it's good to have a filmed record of the event.... which equates
completely with my above comment. In fact, we in the community encourage
filming of events for just this purpose. The photographers that take
these pictures however, don't push them on the net as you are doing, as
entertainment, with no news value or safety connection associated with
that effort.
Next!

Iwan Bogels wrote:

People can download the videos at

LOL! Dead link...

--
Peter

Well, not 20 seconds ago.....presh "refresh" , because you might have the
old link in your cash....

:-)

Iwan




"Peter R." schreef in bericht
...
Iwan Bogels wrote:

People can download the videos at

LOL! Dead link...

--
Peter

"Iwan Bogels" wrote in message
...
http://www.dappa.nl-crash.htm

/

Paul

I really prefer reading top posts.

;-/

mike regish

"Jim Rosinski" wrote in message
om...

Top-posting, bottom-posting. Who gives a damn?

Jim Rosinski
N3825Q

Like you're not answering this one?

:-)

mike regish

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
news:S1P_c.7159
This, and your other post to me asking continuisly for an explanation of
my objections to the specific context of crash videos being discussed in
this thread are a perfect example of why I don't answer posts like
yours.