2015 SSA Contest Selection

In Response to UH above, I for one was planning on attending both 18m and the Sports. And if you are correct with only 2-3 pilots in both 18m and Club Class, that would be a loss of approx. $6,000 for Hobbs and $3,000 for CCSC understanding of course that this money is spread around.
This difference could be a contest breaking even or in the Red, which really ****es the organizers off, I can only imagine. All because of scheduling that was decided over a year in advance, and that I can only imagine goes a long way to escalating the pondering by many as to what possess the SSA to **** off many when perhaps it was not even necessary.
But hey...maybe there was a reason...UH....???
UH????Was it necessary to anger the membership?
Rolf??? There should be an answer as to why. Did they not provide you with a reason? After all...CCSC and the contest Organizers are entitled to an answer.
They will be losing the money.
Unbelievable.
Hey!!! Lets have some feedback...anyone else hoping to attend both???
R

On Saturday, August 30, 2014 5:32:28 PM UTC-5, Retting wrote:
SNIP
I do not want to get snarky, but I've got to...

This last post and others in this thread go a long way to proving that Sports Class nationals is a "class of convenience" and not real racing class. As UH stated in his original post, most of us in Club Class do not have vacation time or $'s to go traipsing around the country wily nilly spending precious 4's for sporting glory.

Thank you RC for finally allowing Club Class to get its own Nationals so we can really race against our peers (gliders and income). I would LOVE to have the option in my 304C (or a Libelle) to have totally fair, multiple opportunities for Nationals-level racing. But the rules don't give me 2 or more Nationals.

I'll go wherever Club Class Nationals is sited and that is all I can do.

EY

On Saturday, August 30, 2014 6:32:28 PM UTC-4, Retting wrote:
In Response to UH above, I for one was planning on attending both 18m and the Sports. And if you are correct with only 2-3 pilots in both 18m and Club Class, that would be a loss of approx. $6,000 for Hobbs and $3,000 for CCSC understanding of course that this money is spread around.

This difference could be a contest breaking even or in the Red, which really ****es the organizers off, I can only imagine. All because of scheduling that was decided over a year in advance, and that I can only imagine goes a long way to escalating the pondering by many as to what possess the SSA to **** off many when perhaps it was not even necessary.

But hey...maybe there was a reason...UH....???

UH????Was it necessary to anger the membership?

Rolf??? There should be an answer as to why. Did they not provide you with a reason? After all...CCSC and the contest Organizers are entitled to an answer.

They will be losing the money.

Unbelievable.

Hey!!! Lets have some feedback...anyone else hoping to attend both???

R

I think R overstates things a bit. It is true that participation is very important but the numbers thrown about are way off. In a VERY well run contest the organizers MIGHT clear $100/ per pilot. CCSC tends to do better than this because of their low cost of tows by virtue of using their tugs and pilots which is financially very beneficial.
The "SSA" is a group of volunteers who have no desire to **** anyone off. They put together the best schedule they can based upon what organizers offer to run, part of which is organizers preferred schedule.
Club just broke free this year and I suspect Hobbs picked up because they were the only viable group that could add it for 2015.
MNLou says pull Club for Hobbs and reschedule. Where would he propose to put Club? It is the express intent to break Club away from Sports and 2015 is the first year it will be apart.
The kind of nastiness that comes from some of these exchanges, including the implication that some evil plan might be behind these decisions, is what has caused our SSA contest leadership to lose a number of key long term volunteers over the last 2 years. My rough estimate is a loss of about 70 years of aggregate experience lost during this time.
I have been planning to go to CCSC, but think maybe I'll reconsider.
How about we play nice kids.
UH

Some clarification if I may -

1) I am hoping a regional contest at a different time will step up and offer to host the Club Nationals and thus avoid the conflict.
2) I very much appreciate everyone who volunteers within our sport - at the individual, club, and national level. I had no intent to criticize anyone and apologize if my comments came across as such.
3) I think running Club Nationals at the same time as Open and 18M Nationals could cause some logistics / tasking problems for the Hobbs team. Taking out the Club competitors might simplify the Hobbs contest.

Lou

The question remains .....unanswered. Why?
I never stated it was the desire of the Site Committee to anger people, note the word desire. However base on historical dating of the Nationals not being on the same date, one would expect that trend to continue and the Committee would be most aware of these facts.
No one can deny the disappointments and if a Contest Manager of a National Championship is force to express his frustrations thru a open forum, it can only mean that he was unable to get answers thru the normal channel. It is well known that there is a strong rift thru the middle of CCSC and perhaps UH advice of 'playing nice' should be the standard, irregardless who has the power and who does not.
It is a sad day when 'Volunteers' use that noble service as a sword for silencing the very group they serve. They have lost purpose of their duty.
R

Thought the Club and Sport classes only need to separate at a handicap point.
For example, AU 2009/10 Club/Sports Nationals list below.
Everyone had fun.
Jim

Reg Call Sign Name P2 Name Glider Class
VH-GMF MF BARNES, Allan LS1 f Club
VH-IUZ UZ BUTTENSHAW, Allan Std Cirrus Club
VH-IID IID CLARK, Todd LS4 Club
VH-FQM QM CODLING, Mike Hornet Club
VH-VWV V4 COLLINGS, Craig ASW19B Club
VH-EAT AT CROWHURST, ASW 19 Club
VH-GLB LB DALTON, Mark Libelle 201B Club
VH-GWL WL DAVIS, Joanne ASW 19 Club
VH-GJJ JJ ENGLISH, Brendan LS 7 WL Club
VH-XJY XJY GREIG, Andrew LS7 Club
VH-GJE JE HAYHOW, Bryan Discus B Club
VH-GKO KO HOSKINGS, Richard ASW 20C Club
VH-XKD XKD KAUFFMANN,Kris Discus CS Club
VH-ZXT XT KUSIAK, Ziggy SZD - 55 Club
VH-XQV XQV LINNET, Christian Std Cirrus Club
VH-GAK AK MANDER, Paul Libelle Club
VH-WQF WQF MOSIEJEWSKI, Jaroslav PIK 20B Club
VH-GMV MV NOWAK, Chad Hornet Club
VH-GZZ ZZ PIETSCH, David ASW 20 Club
VH-IZE IZE RITCHIE, Philip LS4a Club
VH-MXP MXP SINGER, Nick PIK 20E Club
VH-XKE XKB SLY, Mick Discus CS Club
VH-GOP OP SOUTHGATE, Phillip Std Cirrus Club
VH-IKX IKX SPEIGHT, Garry GOERDEL, Maren Twin Astir Club
VH-HDY HDY STEVENSON, Gary ASW 20 Club
VH-IIC IIC TROTTER, Peter ASW 20A Club
VH-VCS VCS VOLK, Philip Discus CS Club
VH- GFP FP WALKER, Robin TBA Grob 103 Club
VH-XOT OT WILKINSON, Bill Discus B Club
VH-GWR WR WOOLEY, Adam LS1 f Club
VH-GMT MT ANDERSON, Jay LS6 a Sports
VH-IUO IUO BROWN, Simon Discus 2c Sports
VH-FQF FQF BUELTER, Rolf LS8 T Sports
VH-ZAB ZAB CARR, Tim Duo Discus Sports
VH-KTC TC CLAFFEY, Kerrie ASW 28 Sports
VH-XTK TK CLAFFEY, Tom ASG 29 Sports
VH-XJS XJS CLEAVER, Mike LS6 Sports
VH-OBH BH HATFIELD, Bill LAK 17-18 Sports
VH-XOZ OZ HEDLEY, Steve EDWARDS, Ross Nimbus 3DM Sports
VH-IDJ 4D JANSEN, David ASG -29(E) Sports
VH-YHK HK KAUFFMANN, Hank ASG 29 Sports
VH-XGK XGK KOLB, Greg Ventus 2 cxt Sports
VH-VSL SLUT LUTTON, Stuart LS 8 Sports
VH-GWB AK MCLEAN,Ross LS8a Sports
VH-KRJ RJ MEDLICOTT, Harry Ventus 2CXT Sports
VH-XGG GG SCHMIDT, Greg LS8 Sports
VH-ZDS ZDS SHORTER, Dave Discus 2B Sports
VH-ITB TB SMITH, Andy Ventus B Sports
VH-GKU KU SPLETTER, Errol LS8 Sports
VH-VTT TT TABBART, Tony Ventus 2 CM Sports
VH-ZKT KT TAYLOR, Bruce Ventus 2cxt Sports
VH-VIT IT TEESE, Ivan ASG 29 E Sports
VH-PNL PNL TROTTER, Lisa LS8 Sports
VH-VCX VCX TURNER, Frank Ventus 2CX-M Sports
VH-ZDW ZDW/3 WILSON, Dave ASG 29 Sports
VH-OKZ KZ WILSON, Tim LS 8 Sports
VH-ULZ LZ ZEHNDER, Lars Ventus 2CX Sports

R -

You don't get it, do you??? UH and others don't "decide" when and where these contests are held. They're not in the shadows pulling strings and arranging everything.

They're lucky to get ONE or mayyyyybe TWO sites to volunteer for each nationals. They have to take what they can get, and if the various groups were only willing to hold their events on these dates - then that's what's going to happen.

Spare us your rudeness and venom, especially if you don't understand the system. Better yet - try ACTUALLY volunteering to run events, so that you DO understand.

--Noel

Easy Noel easy.....
UH knows I was asking him to answer Rolf questions. He is the frustrated volunteer Contest Manager , remember. UH is a trusted Gatekeeper along with Diane who can find answers others need.
You also do not have all the information that would allow your post to be accurate on all counts.
As a life member since 74', I have volunteer some like give free instruction for 25 years. And guess who help run the only Thanksgiving Holiday Regional (1976).
Tadbery,Green, Utley and others were there. I ran Ops.,developed film, weather sounding, retrieved, towed and drove 22 miles to get beer. Indiantown, FL. The DC-9 was approved for grass landing there. 7500 feet hard turf.
Small amount when compared with so many others...
You are right...I should volunteer some more.
Hey....call up Rolf and get answers for him.
Show us how it's done.
R

If it helps, and I am not sure it will, I am willing to do what it takes to organize and host Club nationals for 2015 in Ionia (CM and/or CD) on some "other" date. I wish to strongly support Club Class in any way I can.

That said, here is another idea. Since the premier Club Class event in the USA next year will absolutely be the FAI Club Class Continental Championship event in Chilhowee (Cat 1 FAI points), why are we organizing a separate US Club Nationals in Hobbs? Why don't we just call the Chilhowee event the 2015 US Nationals as it basically is regardless of what it is called? It seems silly to have two major Club events in 2015 as most (see EY)will have to choose just one. Just a thought. ;-)

Lastly, (Rolf) I know this might be annoying, but, has CCSC looked into moving their event date? It seems easy to me to change event dates this far out. I would think between Hobbs or CCSC one could move the date.

Sean

On Sunday, August 31, 2014 6:12:11 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
If it helps, and I am not sure it will, I am willing to do what it takes to organize and host Club nationals for 2015 in Ionia (CM and/or CD) on some "other" date. I wish to strongly support Club Class in any way I can.



That said, here is another idea. Since the premier Club Class event in the USA next year will absolutely be the FAI Club Class Continental Championship event in Chilhowee (Cat 1 FAI points), why are we organizing a separate US Club Nationals in Hobbs? Why don't we just call the Chilhowee event the 2015 US Nationals as it basically is regardless of what it is called? It seems silly to have two major Club events in 2015 as most (see EY)will have to choose just one. Just a thought. ;-)



Lastly, (Rolf) I know this might be annoying, but, has CCSC looked into moving their event date? It seems easy to me to change event dates this far out. I would think between Hobbs or CCSC one could move the date.



Sean

Club for '15 is to be in the "West" with Sports in the East. This is the planned rotation to keep them apart.
The Continental event is run by entirely different rules, including eligibility to participate, and as such isn't a US Nationals.
UH