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#1
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Mechanical Vario
This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for
a few more responses. Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the panel. Would love to hear what people have in their panel. Jeff |
#2
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Mechanical Vario
Jeff Runciman wrote:
This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for a few more responses. Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the panel. Apparently I feel a need to start a religious war... Electron movement can cease (open circuit, low battery, component failure), become too energetic (short), pneumatics can fail (blockage, leak). Everything has a life. Which failure modes have you encountered most often? Which have you heard people complain about most frequently? Have you ever heard of a mechanical vario *suddenly* dying from an internal (i.e. non-pneumatic) cause? Do you feel comfortable with all your panel eggs in an electronic basket? How much thought to true redundancy have you given? Your answers to questions as these may clarify your views. Any approach is a double-edged sword, and there will be some who (rightly) point out that frequency of failure is somewhat related to frequency of use...and these days (both discrete-component based and IC-basd) electrics are ubiquitous in sailplanes, and thus a frequency-of-failure based assessment is to some extent invalid. That noted, when I got into soaring, electric varios were still a newfangled item, yet despite the relatively low frequency of them in panels, there seemed to me to be an inordinate frequency of complaints about electric (radio, cario) failures. IMHO, that's still true today, probably because electric systems a a) ubiquitous, b) seemingly simple and relatively foolproof for any basically-educated-hack to implement, but c) are in fact complex (chemically, physically, electronically, conceptually). Each of my personally-owned sailplanes when purchased had real electrical systems in them, including the one I've flown since 1981. Eventually its radio died, then its (uncompensated, used only for audio) Ball electric vario. Today I use a handheld radio, and one day I hope to remember to borrow my wife's Malletec for its audio. Only one person ever has criticized my thermal etiquette (his experienced passenger later privately told me he disagreed with the criticism), and my fun meter has never felt seriously handicapped by the absence of electronic input. My Sage continues to work perfectly, accompanied by the usual A/S, (sticky) altimeter, and (little-used) whiskey compass. There are at least three naked instrument holes in the panel. Sometimes I feel like a dinosaur. Regards, Bob - a K.I.S.S. fan - Whelan |
#3
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Mechanical Vario
Just recently I experienced a low battery situation which affected the
electronic vario in my club ship. The vario did not just fail, it started giving me unreasonable readings. Eventually I figured it out when the needle started swinging wildly - I knew the battery was getting low but it took a few minutes to recognize the wierd behavior. The ship did not have a backup vario installed, but I had an electronic micro-vario clipped to my hat. DEFINITELY have a backup of some sort if you're going cross-country... as others said, the choice of type is up to you. Roger "Bob Whelan" wrote in message ... Jeff Runciman wrote: This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for a few more responses. Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the panel. Apparently I feel a need to start a religious war... Electron movement can cease (open circuit, low battery, component failure), become too energetic (short), pneumatics can fail (blockage, leak). Everything has a life. Which failure modes have you encountered most often? Which have you heard people complain about most frequently? Have you ever heard of a mechanical vario *suddenly* dying from an internal (i.e. non-pneumatic) cause? Do you feel comfortable with all your panel eggs in an electronic basket? How much thought to true redundancy have you given? Your answers to questions as these may clarify your views. Any approach is a double-edged sword, and there will be some who (rightly) point out that frequency of failure is somewhat related to frequency of use...and these days (both discrete-component based and IC-basd) electrics are ubiquitous in sailplanes, and thus a frequency-of-failure based assessment is to some extent invalid. That noted, when I got into soaring, electric varios were still a newfangled item, yet despite the relatively low frequency of them in panels, there seemed to me to be an inordinate frequency of complaints about electric (radio, cario) failures. IMHO, that's still true today, probably because electric systems a a) ubiquitous, b) seemingly simple and relatively foolproof for any basically-educated-hack to implement, but c) are in fact complex (chemically, physically, electronically, conceptually). Each of my personally-owned sailplanes when purchased had real electrical systems in them, including the one I've flown since 1981. Eventually its radio died, then its (uncompensated, used only for audio) Ball electric vario. Today I use a handheld radio, and one day I hope to remember to borrow my wife's Malletec for its audio. Only one person ever has criticized my thermal etiquette (his experienced passenger later privately told me he disagreed with the criticism), and my fun meter has never felt seriously handicapped by the absence of electronic input. My Sage continues to work perfectly, accompanied by the usual A/S, (sticky) altimeter, and (little-used) whiskey compass. There are at least three naked instrument holes in the panel. Sometimes I feel like a dinosaur. Regards, Bob - a K.I.S.S. fan - Whelan |
#4
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Mechanical Vario
I agree that having two varios is a must. 1) Electronic/electric/
audio as audio is invaluable. 2) Mechanical because it just won't fail. A side benefit is that my Cambridge 302 electronic vario is small 2-1/2" while my Mechanical is large 3-1/4". Thus I find myself glancing at my large mechanical as it is easier to read but listen to my electronic vario as it is easier to listen to ;-) Best of both worlds. - John "67R" DeRosa |
#5
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Mechanical Vario
"Jeff Runciman" wrote in message ... This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for a few more responses. Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the panel. Would love to hear what people have in their panel. Jeff I think most people would agree that a backup vario is needed. They would disagree whether the backup should be mechanical or electronic. I chose a Borgelt B40 electronic vario as a backup since it has an internal backup battery, audio and averager. As to whether electronic or mechanical varios are more reliable, I have 4 varios in my "Cabinet of Ancient Instruments". Three are mechanical and one is electronic. All still work except that the mechanical instruments all indicate +1 Kt. due to the radium paint on the needles becoming lighter with age. Any technology can fail but happily, failures are very rare in today's instruments. Bill Daniels |
#6
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Mechanical Vario
After flying most of an afternoon on just the Mechanical, after my
electric failed, I purchased a B40. I really like having the Audio on my Backup Vario. Brian CFIIG/ASEL HP16T N16VP |
#7
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Mechanical Vario
Jeff Runciman wrote:
This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for a few more responses. Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the panel. Would love to hear what people have in their panel. What's already on your panel? I have an SDI C4 with a Borgelt B.40 as backup (it has a 9v battery as emergency power). I initially had a PZL mechanical as backup, but Mike Borgelt recommends that you don't mix capacity (flow rate) instruments with pressure sensing instruments on the same TE probe. The full story is he http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/in...stallation.pdf on page 3 under "Pneumatic". Consequently I's just decided to swap the PZL for a pressure sensing instrument when a used B.40 became available. I'm very pleased with it. Its easy to read, has a fast response, and complements the C4 very nicely. The B.40 is excellent for finding lift while the C4 is very good for centering up thermals and for inter-thermal cruise. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#8
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Mechanical Vario
On Sep 23, 6:25 pm, Jeff Runciman
wrote: Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the panel? Another way of asking the question could be "who has ever had their primary vario fail?" If my primary (electric audio) vario failed it most likely be because of a general power failure, which would have also have left me without radio, GPS and logger. If I did want to use a mechanical vario, I'd have to go "heads down", which is something I just won't do. I'd fly home via the seat of my pants. So, no mechanical vario here. I did once have a battery go flat on me as the previous pilots of this club aircraft had not put the battery on charge and I'd not checked the voltage during the DI - I learnt a lesson there. On another occasion with another club aircraft the electric vario had broken but it took a long time for it to be fixed and people were still getting it out - I turned down flying it. Not interested in thermalling while looking at a dial. Dan |
#9
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Mechanical Vario
snip
Another way of asking the question could be "who has ever had their primary vario fail?" snip I have had the general Power failure version. I have also had the Bubble Bee impaled on the pitot failure. Since my primary vario is internally compensated this gave it some very strange readings. Fortunatly my B40 is compensated by a TE Probe. Brian CFIIG/ASEL HP16T N16VP |
#10
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Mechanical Vario
Jeff Runciman wrote:
This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for a few more responses. Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the panel. Just today, The vario indicator of my Cambridge 302 started pointinng every which way except what was really happening (just after I told some one how reliable it's been for the last 5 years :-) ), the audio worked just fine. It sure was nice to have my Winter mechanical - although a good electronic vario would have sufficed as well. Tony V |
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