A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Piloting
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

extra GA traffic noticed



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old February 19th 07, 06:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default extra GA traffic noticed


Apart from cost, the things that come to my mind are the substantial amount of
time required to even begin to fly (hours of flying pale in comparison to
hours of instruction and training and exams, at least in the beginning), and
the many regulatory hurdles to flying, such as the need for a license, various
ratings, a strict medical exam, insurance, and so on.


It is a little expensive to learn, I grant you that, but your other
concerns are not as serious as you make them out to be. I got my
ticket from a standing start in 3 months, by squeezing flying in on
weekends and the odd afternoon. Yes, I was fairly committed during
that time (although I still had plenty of time for other things), but
not obsessive. These regulatory hurdles you speak of are nothing - the
medical exam is not strict, the license comes in the mail
automatically after you pass the checkride, insurance is easy to
organize and many clubs offer it as part of their rates. These days I
find it easy to keep up my currency despite the north-eastern weather
(and cheap, too, since I can share the costs of flying with my friends
who come up for a ride).


Overall, flying is a lot more difficult than it should be. While this will
not discourage the most fanatic flyers, it considerably narrows the field of
potential pilots, and even the fanatically devoted pilots have a vested
interest in encouraging other people to fly, as it helps pay for and justify
the massive infrastructure upon which all pilots depend.


You say flying is more difficult than it should be. What would you
suggest? If you could magically swoop in and change things, what would
you change?

Tom

  #22  
Old February 19th 07, 07:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jose
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 897
Default extra GA traffic noticed

You say flying is more difficult than it should be. What would you
suggest? If you could magically swoop in and change things, what would
you change?


I would change the "sharing costs" rule, and go back to the original.
"A private pilot may share the expenses of a flight with his or her
passengers in any mutually agreeable manner." It is important that the
flight not be represented (overtly or otherwise) as a commercial or
charter flight. So, in the same style as expermental aircraft having to
be so labeled, and pilots having to inform passengers on how to buckle
and unbuckle the safety belt, pilots should clearly state to the
passengers that the flight is not a commercial or charter flight, and is
not subject to the safety rules and regulations that govern such flights.

I would also reverse the "holding out" ruling. I see nothing wrong with
(say) posting on a college ride board that John is willing to fly up to
three people to Albion for spring break, in line with other similar
postings for car ride sharing.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #23  
Old February 19th 07, 09:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default extra GA traffic noticed

writes:

It is a little expensive to learn, I grant you that, but your other
concerns are not as serious as you make them out to be. I got my
ticket from a standing start in 3 months, by squeezing flying in on
weekends and the odd afternoon. Yes, I was fairly committed during
that time (although I still had plenty of time for other things), but
not obsessive. These regulatory hurdles you speak of are nothing - the
medical exam is not strict, the license comes in the mail
automatically after you pass the checkride, insurance is easy to
organize and many clubs offer it as part of their rates. These days I
find it easy to keep up my currency despite the north-eastern weather
(and cheap, too, since I can share the costs of flying with my friends
who come up for a ride).


I'm glad it worked out well for you. It's better to be rich and healthy than
poor and sick, that's for sure. And having lots of free time helps.

You say flying is more difficult than it should be. What would you
suggest? If you could magically swoop in and change things, what would
you change?


Well, costs would have to be reduced drastically, so that the average pilot
could actually own his own aircraft without selling a kidney, and could afford
to operate one without selling the other one. Granted, this could be
challenging in the face of safety requirements and some of the practical
aspects of aviation (you need a place to park a plane, but most homes these
days are already provided with a place to park a car), but requiring
certification for every nut and bolt is probably excessive. Regulations could
probably be lightened up for pilots who don't intend to carry paying
passengers, i.e., you can use uncertified light bulbs in your plane if you're
just flying for yourself. Just carrying passengers should not change this, as
long as they aren't customers. Yes, passengers would be taking a risk if they
flew with a less-than-competent pilot or in a less-than-perfectly-maintained
aircraft, but they do exactly the same thing every day with automobiles.

Also, the medicals should be pretty much eliminated. Pilots are not
astronauts, and anyone who can drive a car is in good enough health to fly an
airplane (of his own--commercial air transport would still need to be more
strict, although not as strict as it is now). There are very few auto
accidents due to someone having a heart attack at the wheel, so there's no
point in worrying about that in an aircraft.

Some of the obstacles seem to be of the nature of flying. I can't see how you
could avoid the commute to and from the airport, or the need for a car to get
to and from the airport at both the departure and destination locations.
These incur a lot of additional costs and consume a lot of time.

Charging for everything by the hour raises costs. A daily rate would be nice,
for those who must rent aircraft; making personal ownership more accessible
would be even better.

Heavy use of full-motion simulators for training could greatly reduce costs
and improve convenience. By using computer-generated and managed scenarios
and recording all flights, the need for an instructor during simulator flight
in order to log it would also be eliminated most of the time.

The whole culture of general aviation for private pilots has been built up
around extremely high costs and red tape, and it would be hard to grind that
all back down to something accessible and affordable. I'm certain, however,
that if all these obstacles didn't exist, aviation would be vastly more
popular than it is now (maybe even _too_ popular).

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
  #24  
Old February 19th 07, 09:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default extra GA traffic noticed

Jose writes:

I would change the "sharing costs" rule, and go back to the original.
"A private pilot may share the expenses of a flight with his or her
passengers in any mutually agreeable manner." It is important that the
flight not be represented (overtly or otherwise) as a commercial or
charter flight. So, in the same style as expermental aircraft having to
be so labeled, and pilots having to inform passengers on how to buckle
and unbuckle the safety belt, pilots should clearly state to the
passengers that the flight is not a commercial or charter flight, and is
not subject to the safety rules and regulations that govern such flights.

I would also reverse the "holding out" ruling. I see nothing wrong with
(say) posting on a college ride board that John is willing to fly up to
three people to Albion for spring break, in line with other similar
postings for car ride sharing.


I think all of these regulations are incredibly anal, and I'm surprised the
FAA is even allowed to get away with them. Arguing about angels on the head
of a pin helps no one, and it's really not the FAA's business.

I don't think anyone would confuse sharing the cost of fuel with a pilot
friend with boarding a United Airlines flight for Chicago, just as nobody
pithcing in for gas with a friend to drive to the coast would confuse it with
a Greyhound bus.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
  #25  
Old February 19th 07, 09:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default extra GA traffic noticed

writes:

One factor that makes flying a bit unattractive is that a simple PPL
does not have a lot of utility and is not the equivalent of a driving
license in the sky. Sometimes it is sold that way though. When I took
my first intro flight in Northern CA, the instructor tried to sell me
the idea that once I get my PPL, I would be free as a bird and could
fly to on a whim to Tahoe for skiing!


What prevents it?

I think that the PPL kind of
flying is more of a sport than anything else like mountaineering or
skydiving or even gliding and maybe needs to be marketed as such. It
just so happens that on some nice days it can be used as a means of
transport but this cannot be the main reason for getting a PPL.


Ah, I see what you mean. Certainly a PPL is not at all useful for
transportation except under extremely specific conditions. Anyone presenting
it otherwise is pretty much lying.

It's also arguable that there are way too many separate ratings and
restrictions. A license to drive a Volkswagen also entitles you to drive a
van or a Porsche; why can't a license to fly one small plane allow you to fly
any small plane? If you're too unskilled to drive a Porsche, that's your
problem--why shouldn't it be the same for aircraft?

Here again, you could make a distinction for commercial pilots, just as
drivers of large commercial vehicles often need a special driver's license.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
  #26  
Old February 19th 07, 09:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,169
Default extra GA traffic noticed

BDS writes:

But, if you can be even just a
little flexible with your schedule then you certainly can do quite alot with
a PPL, and even if you fly strictly VFR. Add an instrument rating and
maintain your currency and you greatly extend the utility of your PPL.


Still, you can apply a simple test: Which predominates when you fly, the
flying itself or the destination? The answer, in the great majority of cases,
is the flying itself. Therefore it is not transportation.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Have you guys ever noticed the void? Stealth Pilot Home Built 32 January 16th 06 12:19 AM
Cowardice -- has anyone noticed Americans fight from a distance Matt Wiser Military Aviation 0 September 10th 04 09:52 PM
Traffic 2004 vs Ultimate Traffic Tlewis95 Simulators 3 August 13th 04 05:39 AM
if u need extra cash,do this! Dchristopher6784 Simulators 0 October 3rd 03 10:43 PM
Extra fees Paul Millner Owning 0 July 5th 03 06:39 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.