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#11
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(USA) 2010 Program Letters (have FAA requirements changed?)
On Feb 4, 4:15*pm, Tuno wrote:
I just got off the phone with my FSDO. I made the mistake of stating on my program letter that, in addition to the specific contest-oriented dates, places & locations already on the letter, I would also conduct flights "for my own enjoyment". He pointed out to me that flights "for my own enjoyment" are not authorized by my aircraft limitations. Only actual racing, and proficiency flights in preparation thereof, are permitted. Well, I sit corrected! No more fun flights in my glider. Serious **** only! (Mr M, if you troll this web page, please understand I don't blame this on you -- I know you're just following the rules. But the situation is, well, laughable. My letter will be revised and resubmitted with unseen winks and nudges.) ted/2NO Ted, "Enjoyment" is totally unauthorized! You should have known better. In fact, you are not even allowed to smile during your "racing" and "proficiency" flights. Now, go forth and fly, get ready for the contest season, but remember.....DO NOT enjoy it! ;-) Renny |
#12
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(USA) 2010 Program Letters (have FAA requirements changed?)
On Feb 4, 6:15*pm, Tuno wrote:
I just got off the phone with my FSDO. [...] Well, I sit corrected! No more fun flights in my glider. Serious **** only! Some truths, we hold to be self-evident :-). -T8 |
#13
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(USA) 2010 Program Letters (have FAA requirements changed?)
Speaking of Faxing - what's with that? Can't the FAA handle an email attachement of a Word doc or a PDF file? Sheesh.... Kirk A inquiry to your friendly FSDO might be in order. Electronic is easier for both parties. The Houston (TX) FDSO accepted my program letter (and other's) electronically this year. Understandably, they want a signature, so a plain Word file is generally not going to cut it. I printed the letter, signed it, scanned it to a pdf, and submitted. Based on a recommendation I saw some months ago (in Soaring mag or ras, I don't recall) to ask for receipt confirmation, I asked for a return email stating they received it, which they did. I realize that's not legally definative, but it's an easy step to at least confirm they read it and felt it was acceptable. While the whole program letter idea for sailplanes does seem a bit pointless, I did feel that our local FDSO was trying to make the best of the existing requirements and very willing to work with pilots. - Frank |
#14
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(USA) 2010 Program Letters (have FAA requirements changed?)
On Feb 4, 4:15*pm, Tuno wrote:
I just got off the phone with my FSDO. I made the mistake of stating on my program letter that, in addition to the specific contest-oriented dates, places & locations already on the letter, I would also conduct flights "for my own enjoyment". He pointed out to me that flights "for my own enjoyment" are not authorized by my aircraft limitations. Only actual racing, and proficiency flights in preparation thereof, are permitted. Well, I sit corrected! No more fun flights in my glider. Serious **** only! (Mr M, if you troll this web page, please understand I don't blame this on you -- I know you're just following the rules. But the situation is, well, laughable. My letter will be revised and resubmitted with unseen winks and nudges.) ted/2NO That is quite correct. More specifically from FAA Order 8130.2 (31) All proficiency/practice flights must be conducted within the geographical area described in the applicant’s program letter and any amendments to that letter, but no portion of that area will be more than 300 nautical miles from the aircraft’s home base airport. An exception is permitted for proficiency flying outside of the area stated above for organized formation flying, training, or pilot checkout in conjunction with a specific event listed in the applicant’s program letter (or amendments). The program letter should indicate the location and dates for this proficiency flying. (Applicability: Group I; group III under 800 horsepower) (35) Proficiency flights are authorized without geographical restrictions when conducted in preparation for participation in sanctioned meets and pursuant to qualify for Federal Aeronautique International (FAI) or Soaring Society of America (SSA) awards. These flights may only take place as defined in the applicant’s program letter, and prior to the specific FAI or SSA event. The pilot in command must submit a description of the intended route and/or geographical area intended to be flown to the local FSDO. (Applicability: Group I, gliders only) |
#15
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(USA) 2010 Program Letters (have FAA requirements changed?)
On Feb 5, 12:06*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:
(35) Proficiency flights are authorized without geographical restrictions when conducted in preparation for participation in sanctioned meets and pursuant to qualify for Federal Aeronautique International (FAI) or Soaring Society of America (SSA) awards. These flights may only take place as defined in the applicant’s program letter, and prior to the specific FAI or SSA event. The pilot in command must submit a description of the intended route and/or geographical area intended to be flown to the local FSDO. (Applicability: Group I, gliders only) What does "local FSDO" mean in this context? It could be either local to the glider home base, or it could mean local to the planned area of the flight. The rule is rather strange in either event. It seems to say you can fly anywhere without geographic restriction as long as you tell them before hand exactly where you are going to fly. (Joseph Heller would have enjoyed this one). Andy |
#16
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(USA) 2010 Program Letters (have FAA requirements changed?)
On Feb 5, 7:13*am, Andy wrote:
On Feb 5, 12:06*am, Frank Whiteley wrote: (35) Proficiency flights are authorized without geographical restrictions when conducted in preparation for participation in sanctioned meets and pursuant to qualify for Federal Aeronautique International (FAI) or Soaring Society of America (SSA) awards. These flights may only take place as defined in the applicant’s program letter, and prior to the specific FAI or SSA event. The pilot in command must submit a description of the intended route and/or geographical area intended to be flown to the local FSDO. (Applicability: Group I, gliders only) What does "local FSDO" mean in this context? *It could be either local to the glider home base, or it could mean local to the planned area of the flight. The rule is rather strange in either event. *It seems to say you can fly anywhere without geographic restriction as long as you tell them before hand exactly where you are going to fly. (Joseph Heller would have enjoyed this one). Andy Good question, though amendments to the program letter go to the base FSDO (which is why their FAX number is on my pdf example). Frank |
#17
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(USA) 2010 Program Letters (have FAA requirements changed?)
kirk.stant wrote:
On Feb 4, 1:30 pm, zulu wrote: Ted et al Your FSDO dude is a bit behind the times as the most current FAA order is 8130.2F Change 5 dated 01/15/2010. Check out para. 161 in order to get started. I've been told by our local FSDO that older gliders can no longer use their old "one time" program letter and that the operations limitations need to reflect the airport from which the glider is flown and that a yearly program letter must be submitted. HOWEVER, the local feds have not as yet quoted me book, chaper and verse of the reg/order that supports their statement. I'm still working on that but I suspect it can be found in the above mentioned order. Zulu Yeah, I can see that coming! Maybe time to put bogus N numbers on the glider - different on each side? But more seriously, has anyone out there been checked by the FAA to see if they are complying with their program letter? I can just see a ramp check at a big Sports Class contest! And what is the penalty? "You can't fly it here." "OK, where's the Fax machine?". Speaking of Faxing - what's with that? Can't the FAA handle an email attachement of a Word doc or a PDF file? Sheesh.... Kirk Regrettably we may as well get used to this. We have had a full ramp check for the entire grid at a regional contest- 29 aircraft -(2009 Gauteng regionals - that is in South Africa for the rest of the world) All documentation - glider and pilot, weight and balance etc. Contest check - Briefing, tasking, airspace ad turnpoint files, safety documentation and policies the whole nine yards. Kept the contest directors busy the whole day. Fortunately no major problems - except the time consumed. Bruce --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- |
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