If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#91
|
|||
|
|||
If all midair collisions were eliminated...
On Feb 14, 11:27*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Dave writes: Just to throw in *.02 re your TCAS comment.................. We have the ZAON XRX on board our Cherokee in a VERY busy environment (100,000 operations /yr) I cannot begin to tell you how useful this tool is in tracking trafffic around us For $1500 ! The Sandel ST3400 is a TAWS/RMI display that also includes TCAS capability, with a fancy back-projected LCD display. That's probably why it is so expensive. I suppose TCAS alone is a lot cheaper. I looked at the ZAON XRX on their Web site and it looks like a pretty practical gadget. The Sandel ST3400 is a display for TCAS. The Sandel does not "include TCAS" as seems to be implied here. TCAS I systems start at ~$20k for GA aircraft, not including displays and other critical components, and for TCAS II in a transport category aircraft can go to prices you can buy a nice house. The Zaon MRX and XRX are quire different than TCAS so I'm not sure why this thread was renamed TCAS. They are examples of PCAS (Portable/ Passive Collision Avoidance Systems) systems not TCAS, i.e. to start with they don't actively interrogate transponders, instead relying on listening to replies to interrogations from ground SSR, and airborne TCAD and TCAS systems. TCAD systems (e.g. the L3 Skywatch) do active interrogations but are less sophisticated and capable than TCAS systems, although some of the newer high-end versions of what have traditionally been TCAD systems are meeting TCAS I requirements. Of all these systems only TCAS II issues a resolution advisory (RA) (i.e. instruction to climb/descend to avoid traffic, which override ATC clearances/instructions). PCAS, TCAD and TCAS I and II acronyms are pretty much widely accepted (TCAS I and II have very specific meanings), quite different in technology/capabilities are usually worth carefully differentiating between. To the previous post, I agree that PCAS systems are very useful low cost ways of improving traffic awareness, and I fly with a Zaon MRX (and transponder) in my motorglider. However as with all systems it helps to know of their limitations. For PCAS this starts with (1.) they can only detect Mode C or Mode S transponder equipped aircraft, (2.) that are actively being interrogated by another source (luckily there are usually lots of those interrogators out there). Darryl |
#93
|
|||
|
|||
If all midair collisions were eliminated...
"Dan" wrote in message ... Dave wrote: Hi Dan! If thats the case, he sure has learned whose buttons to push and how huh? How long have you been retired Dan? Dave Since 1994. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired You have been retired one year longer then I. Wayne, U.S. Navy, retired |
#94
|
|||
|
|||
If all midair collisions were eliminated...
Wayne Paul wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message ... Dave wrote: Hi Dan! If thats the case, he sure has learned whose buttons to push and how huh? How long have you been retired Dan? Dave Since 1994. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired You have been retired one year longer then I. Wayne, U.S. Navy, retired I was in special operations and played on Navy boats. The ones I played on, Iwo Jima class helicopter assault ships, are all gone. The odd part is the C-130 we had in addition to helicopters were built around the same time as the boats, but are still operational. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#95
|
|||
|
|||
TCAS
If by "certain non-mandatory equipment" you mean a mode C transponder, yes. However, there is hardly any place in the US with significant traffic that most people don't have a mode C transponder. The places were there are few transponders tend to be well removed from major urban areas and full of things like gliders, sky divers, ultra lights and such. -- Jim Pennino What??!!!! I respectfully must disagree with your two assumptions stated above! Cookie |
#96
|
|||
|
|||
If all midair collisions were eliminated...
"Dan" wrote in message ... Wayne Paul wrote: "Dan" wrote in message ... Dave wrote: Hi Dan! If thats the case, he sure has learned whose buttons to push and how huh? How long have you been retired Dan? Dave Since 1994. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired You have been retired one year longer then I. Wayne, U.S. Navy, retired I was in special operations and played on Navy boats. The ones I played on, Iwo Jima class helicopter assault ships, are all gone. The odd part is the C-130 we had in addition to helicopters were built around the same time as the boats, but are still operational. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired Dan, I served on five aircraft carriers. All have been decommissioned except the USS Enterprise. If you want to see the aircraft I flew (A-3B Skywarrior and A-6A Intruder) you must visit a museum. Wayne A-3B (http://www.soaridaho.com/Family_Pict..._A3_On_Cat.jpg) A-6A (http://www.soaridaho.com/Family_Pict...icers_1969.jpg) |
#97
|
|||
|
|||
TCAS
|
#98
|
|||
|
|||
If all midair collisions were eliminated...
Hi Darryl!
You have described the differences very well.. A full TCAS is simply not in the budget, and the ZAON is serving us well in a very "target rich" environment. We have added pulsing wingtip landing lights, Comet strobes and the ZAON to our Warrior in the our best attempt to avoid conflicts. Our little airport has over 100,000 "operations" /year.. Not unusual to have two circuits in operation on the same rny, with 3 - 4 airplanes in each, with a regional jet and some military flights tossed in for good measure. One nice afternoon 2 wks ago they were launching or receiving an aircraft every 20 seconds or so. They gave us the option of the cross rny , from the intersection, with an alt restriction of 700 ft until clear of the circuit, so we took it and got out of Dodge.. The controller was especially sharp, and was coreographing the whole thing very well, and the pilots, mostly students, were right up with him. The ZAON is a great tool to show us where to lok. It has its limitations as a passive device, but for the $$$$$ spent, it is very helpful in our intense traffic situation here... Dave On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:12:20 -0800 (PST), Darryl Ramm wrote: On Feb 14, 11:27*am, Mxsmanic wrote: Dave writes: Just to throw in *.02 re your TCAS comment.................. We have the ZAON XRX on board our Cherokee in a VERY busy environment (100,000 operations /yr) I cannot begin to tell you how useful this tool is in tracking trafffic around us For $1500 ! The Sandel ST3400 is a TAWS/RMI display that also includes TCAS capability, with a fancy back-projected LCD display. That's probably why it is so expensive. I suppose TCAS alone is a lot cheaper. I looked at the ZAON XRX on their Web site and it looks like a pretty practical gadget. The Sandel ST3400 is a display for TCAS. The Sandel does not "include TCAS" as seems to be implied here. TCAS I systems start at ~$20k for GA aircraft, not including displays and other critical components, and for TCAS II in a transport category aircraft can go to prices you can buy a nice house. The Zaon MRX and XRX are quire different than TCAS so I'm not sure why this thread was renamed TCAS. They are examples of PCAS (Portable/ Passive Collision Avoidance Systems) systems not TCAS, i.e. to start with they don't actively interrogate transponders, instead relying on listening to replies to interrogations from ground SSR, and airborne TCAD and TCAS systems. TCAD systems (e.g. the L3 Skywatch) do active interrogations but are less sophisticated and capable than TCAS systems, although some of the newer high-end versions of what have traditionally been TCAD systems are meeting TCAS I requirements. Of all these systems only TCAS II issues a resolution advisory (RA) (i.e. instruction to climb/descend to avoid traffic, which override ATC clearances/instructions). PCAS, TCAD and TCAS I and II acronyms are pretty much widely accepted (TCAS I and II have very specific meanings), quite different in technology/capabilities are usually worth carefully differentiating between. To the previous post, I agree that PCAS systems are very useful low cost ways of improving traffic awareness, and I fly with a Zaon MRX (and transponder) in my motorglider. However as with all systems it helps to know of their limitations. For PCAS this starts with (1.) they can only detect Mode C or Mode S transponder equipped aircraft, (2.) that are actively being interrogated by another source (luckily there are usually lots of those interrogators out there). Darryl |
#99
|
|||
|
|||
If all midair collisions were eliminated...
On Feb 14, 12:12*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Feb 14, 11:27*am, Mxsmanic wrote: Dave writes: Just to throw in *.02 re your TCAS comment.................. We have the ZAON XRX on board our Cherokee in a VERY busy environment (100,000 operations /yr) I cannot begin to tell you how useful this tool is in tracking trafffic around us For $1500 ! The Sandel ST3400 is a TAWS/RMI display that also includes TCAS capability, with a fancy back-projected LCD display. That's probably why it is so expensive. I suppose TCAS alone is a lot cheaper. I looked at the ZAON XRX on their Web site and it looks like a pretty practical gadget. The Sandel ST3400 is a display for TCAS. The Sandel does not "include TCAS" as seems to be implied here. TCAS I systems start at ~$20k for GA aircraft, not including displays and other critical components, and for TCAS II in a transport category aircraft can go to prices you can buy a nice house. The Zaon MRX and XRX are quire different than TCAS so I'm not sure why this thread was renamed TCAS. They are examples of PCAS (Portable/ Passive Collision Avoidance Systems) systems not TCAS, i.e. to start with they don't actively interrogate transponders, instead relying on listening to replies to interrogations from ground SSR, and airborne TCAD and TCAS systems. *TCAD systems (e.g. the L3 Skywatch) do active interrogations but are less sophisticated and capable than TCAS systems, although some of the newer high-end versions of what have traditionally been TCAD systems are meeting TCAS I requirements. Of all these systems only TCAS II issues a resolution advisory (RA) (i.e. instruction to climb/descend to avoid traffic, which override ATC clearances/instructions). PCAS, TCAD and TCAS I and II acronyms are pretty much widely accepted (TCAS I and II have very specific meanings), quite different in technology/capabilities are usually worth carefully differentiating between. To the previous post, I agree that PCAS systems are very useful low cost ways of improving traffic awareness, and I fly with a Zaon MRX (and transponder) in my motorglider. However as with all systems it helps to know of their limitations. For PCAS this starts with (1.) they can only detect Mode C or Mode S transponder equipped aircraft, (2.) that are actively being interrogated by another source (luckily there are usually lots of those interrogators out there). Darryl And I forgot to mention Mode S TIS (which is not the same as ADS-B TIS- B). Which is SSR derived traffic position sent over Mode S to each TIS capable aircraft. Only available where there is terminal radar with TIS support. Area radar would update too slowly, so it's limited to terminal radar coverage and then only if that terminal radar facility has the extra smarts to do TIS. The TIS ground processor calculates threats to each aircraft and uplinks that to that aircraft over Mode S. Obviously the threat aircraft need to have Mode C or S transponders and be within coverage of that terminal radar. TIS works well if you have the coverage, and its relatively cheap, in many GA panels if you already have an MFD and a Mode S transponder it is often almost "free". Unfortunately the number of terminal facilities in the USA with TIS has reduced since the FAA did not want to pay to keep TIS when they upgraded some terminal radars. With ADS-B taking a very long time to get deployed, I wish they had not done this (and some vendors had proposed relatively low cost TIS ground stations that would have reduced the costs of keeping TIS). Still if you have coverge today, TIS can be a great service. I deliberately did not mention Flarm that is great technology, but mostly for gliders (and towplanes) - and unfortunately did not get to the USA early on when it could have really grown like it has in Europe. And I deliberately did not mention ADS-B, since it is not really here yet, but it is starting, but it is the long-term future in traffic awareness systems, although it does not replace transponders/TCAS II for the most demanding collision avoidance (a common misconception). There are already some interesting low-end systems that combine things like PCAS, Flarm and an ADS-B 1090ES receiver that are just shipping or shipping soon, like the TRX-1090, TRX-2000, PowerFLARM and others. Darryl |
#100
|
|||
|
|||
If all midair collisions were eliminated...
Darryl Ramm wrote:
/snip/ And I forgot to mention Mode S TIS (which is not the same as ADS-B TIS- B). Which is SSR derived traffic position sent over Mode S to each TIS capable aircraft. Only available where there is terminal radar with TIS support. Area radar would update too slowly, so it's limited to terminal radar coverage and then only if that terminal radar facility has the extra smarts to do TIS. The TIS ground processor calculates threats to each aircraft and uplinks that to that aircraft over Mode S. Obviously the threat aircraft need to have Mode C or S transponders and be within coverage of that terminal radar. /snip/ Darryl Which reminds me: I fly out of a civil field in a notch of the zone round a military base - where a digital radar upgrade has recently appeared. I notice that with my mode C active, I seem to be able to hear an interrogation as a click as well as see a visual interrogation flash. These days, I don't get a repetitive once a revolution style interrogation, but rather a string of clicks when I am inbound (i.e a threat to military types which do have squitter) in my headset tuned to the CTAF Brian W |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Mid Air Collisions | Sukumar Kirloskar | Soaring | 2 | July 3rd 08 02:42 PM |
FAA Soaring Forecasts being eliminated? | David Neptune | Soaring | 6 | July 15th 06 05:47 AM |
Kids and Aviation records. I thought these were supposed to be eliminated. | Roger Halstead | Piloting | 2 | September 27th 04 07:20 PM |
Mid-Air Collisions | JJ Sinclair | Soaring | 26 | April 19th 04 08:52 AM |
MID AIR COLLISIONS | Vorsanger1 | Soaring | 2 | April 16th 04 04:17 AM |