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#11
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taking pictures from the sky
On Fri, 16 May 2008 11:48:30 -0500, Gig 601Xl Builder
wrote in : wrote: But aerial photography where the photographs are for sale is clearly a flight made for the sole purpose of making money and the flight is essential to the photography so it requires a commercial. I can't find it any more but there was that list of opinions from the FAA chief counsel that while not having the effect of law was a pretty damn good idea of how the FAA was going to treat a given situation. For some reason there is a memory stuck in my head there was an opinion in there that stated that the FAA or at least the Chief Counsel did feel that when flying for professional photography the flying was incidental to the photography and hence legal for a private pilot. P.S. If anyone knows where that list of opinions is archived please chime in. I'd really like to bookmark it. The answer below may be what you were looking for: http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.c...61_72205 .doc QUESTION: I just had a question regarding pilots who received their commercial license prior to the limitation/ restriction requiring them to have an instrument rating before they could fly for compensation (i.e., issued prior to the November*1, 1974 effective date when Part*61 was revised requiring Instrument?Airplane rating). Are they grandfathered in, or to fly for hire, are they required to go out and get the instrument rating? ANSWER: Ref. §*61.133(b); Yes, a person who holds a commercial pilot certificate with the airplane rating but without the instrument-airplane rating issued prior to November*1, 1974 are grandfathered in However, if the question you’re asking is whether a person may fly for a Part*121 or Part*135 operator flying airplanes, the answer is no. Because note in both provisions of §*61.133(a)(1)(i) and (ii), the words “. . . is qualified in accordance. . . and with the applicable parts of this chapter that apply to the operation . . .” For example, if a person holds a commercial pilot certificate with an Airplane-Single-engine Land rating, but does not hold an Instrument-Airplane rating. Then per §135.243(b)(3), it requires a person to hold an Instrument-Airplane rating. But certainly, the pilot may continue to perform some commercial operations (that are not applicable to Parts*121 or 135 operations), such as photography flights, pipeline patrols, etc. where there is a carriage of persons or property for compensation or hire. This answer is based on previous policy letters that were issued on November 20, 1973 and October*9, 1974. {Q&A-305} Apparently inspector Lynch created several of these FAQs: http://www.soaringsafety.org/pilots/FAQ_Glider.doc http://trifocus.net/~casey/pt141faq.doc |
#12
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taking pictures from the sky
Mxsmanic wrote:
writes: Generally, any flight that includes compensation to the pilot in any form as a result of having made the flight requires a commercial. If he is compensated for the flight. But if he is working on his own as a photographer, that doesn't count. The aircraft is a tool of his trade, he is not flying for hire. If he is selling the photos he is compensated. But aerial photography where the photographs are for sale is clearly a flight made for the sole purpose of making money and the flight is essential to the photography so it requires a commercial. The flight is not essential to the photography, since he could hire someone else to do the flying. Bad logic. A flight is essential to aerial photography. A flight is not essential to ground photography. No matter who is flying the airplane, that person must have a commercial. See: http://www.aopa.org/members/files/to...otography.html "Here's the answer: FAR 61.113(b)(1) states that a private pilot may act as pilot in command (PIC) of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if the flight is only incidental to that business or employment. Clearly, this flight on its photography mission is not merely incidental to the business, because the photos are to be sold or used in the business. Therefore, a private pilot cannot legally be PIC of this flight; the PIC must hold a commercial pilot certificate." If he hires someone, the flight is governed by part 91 as long as the flight lands only at the original point of departure. If the flight lands anywhere else, it is governed by part 135. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#13
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taking pictures from the sky
Mxsmanic wrote:
Robert M. Gary writes: Passengers and cargo have little to do with it. You're probably confusing commercial with 135. I'm making a distinction between flying for hire and flying for one's own business purposes. Just as a private pilot can fly between his offices in different cities for business purposes, he can fly for the purpose of taking pictures. If he transports someone _else_ who acts as photographer, though, the situation may change. Wrong. If the purpose of the flight is to take pictures to sell, the purpose of the flight is to make money and a private pilot can't do that. http://www.aopa.org/members/files/to...otography.html for starters. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#14
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taking pictures from the sky
Flying is not "incidental" to the business of aerial photography. It
is, in fact, an integral part of it. I would say a Commercial Certificate is required to be PIC on a hired photography flight. If a Private Pilot is flying around taking pretty pictures, and then selling them door-to-door or at art shows, I don't see how that would require a Commercial Certificate. If you asked 4 FSDOs, you'd get 4 different answers. Lee Ross N466SR CP SEL IA www.Rosspilot.com |
#15
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taking pictures from the sky
"rosspilot" wrote in message ... Flying is not "incidental" to the business of aerial photography. It is, in fact, an integral part of it. I would say a Commercial Certificate is required to be PIC on a hired photography flight. If a Private Pilot is flying around taking pretty pictures, and then selling them door-to-door or at art shows, I don't see how that would require a Commercial Certificate. If you asked 4 FSDOs, you'd get 4 different answers. Lee Ross N466SR CP SEL IA www.Rosspilot.com I strongly suspect that you have summed it up rather well. Peter |
#17
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taking pictures from the sky
On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:43:43 -0700, C J Campbell
wrote in 2008051617434343658-christophercampbell@hotmailcom: Interesting information. Thanks. Regarding: Barbara Streisand sued a photographer who took a picture of her house from the air. She not only lost, but the photographer was awarded his legal costs. The next photographer might not be so lucky. Streisand obviously irritated the court by asserting a right to deny access to anyone she felt like to the airspace above her house. A smarter plaintiff would have simply asserted invasion of privacy or copyright infringement and might have won. http://www.californiacoastline.org/s...d/lawsuit.html Barbra Streisand Sues to Suppress Free Speech Protection for Widely Acclaimed Website Barbra Streisand, known for espousing pro-environmental views and criticizing those who don't, has sued the California Coastal Records Project, a landmark photographic database of over 12,000 frames of the California coast shot since 2002, asserting that the inclusion of a single frame that includes her blufftop Malibu estate invades her privacy, violates the "anti-paparazzi" statute, seeks to profit from her name, and threatens her security. Other defendants in the case are the Project's Internet Service Provider, Layer42.NET, and Pictopia.COM, who provides finished prints of the photographs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since shortly after our web site "went live", Barbra Streisand has been complaining about a photograph on our web site, 3% of which covers her home. In February 2003, we received a threatening letter from her attorney, John Gatti of Alschuler Grossman Stein & Kahan LLP, demanding that we "immediately cease and desist from photographing and displaying and identifying photographs of Ms. Streisand's home on the website www.californiacoastline.org [...]". The photo Barbra Streisand is complaining about We refuse to be intimidated by these tactics, which would undermine our constitutional protection of free speech and which would compromise the integrity of this historical and scientific database. As a result of which, we received a second threatening letter. Our goal is to create a complete record of the California coastline. This record has been used by a number of government, university, press, and environmental groups (partial list) free of charge. It is not possible to provide the public with a complete record without the photographs of the coast that happen to include Ms. Streisand's estate. We do not believe in giving special treatment to wealthy coastal land owners. Ms. Streisand, who purports to espouse the First Amendment right of freedom of speech (See "My Thoughts On Freedom of Speech" (scroll down to "My Thoughts"), at www.barbrastreisand.com) apparently feels differently when the publication of a photograph shows her backyard. Here is a copy of the Complaint that Ms. Streisand filed against us in Superior Court in Los Angeles. Here is a complete set of court documents. All of her claims are frivolous and will be vigorously defended. Read our full press release here HTML: http://www.californiacoastline.org/s...e-lawsuit.html or PDF. http://www.californiacoastline.org/s...se-lawsuit.pdf Or read some of the rants we've been receiving. |
#18
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taking pictures from the sky
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#19
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taking pictures from the sky
The OP wrote
Can a person take pictures of properties from a private airplane and charge for doing it? What kind of license or permits do they need to do this? That is a commercial operation that depends on an airplane -- he said so! On May 16, 1:51 pm, Mxsmanic wrote: Robert M. Gary writes: Passengers and cargo have little to do with it. You're probably confusing commercial with 135. I'm making a distinction between flying for hire and flying for one's own business purposes. Just as a private pilot can fly between his offices in different cities for business purposes, he can fly for the purpose of taking pictures. If he transports someone _else_ who acts as photographer, though, the situation may change. |
#20
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taking pictures from the sky
Mxsmanic wrote in
: writes: Generally, the pilot needs a commercial license if the pictures are for sale. A CPL? No, I don't think so--not if he is flying in the pursuit of his own business (not carrying passengers or cargo). You're worng and you are an idiot. As usual. Bertie |
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