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Butterfly vario side-by-side with ClearNav vario



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 15th 13, 11:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Butterfly vario side-by-side with ClearNav vario

Anyone used these two varios in the same flight? How do they compare?
  #2  
Old May 16th 13, 12:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Butterfly vario side-by-side with ClearNav vario

On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 5:50:37 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Anyone used these two varios in the same flight? How do they compare?


If you do, get the latest CN vario software. The speed to fly is now working and the filtering has changed a good deal -- for the better imho.
John Cochrane
  #3  
Old May 16th 13, 12:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Richard[_9_]
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Default Butterfly vario side-by-side with ClearNav vario

On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 3:50:37 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Anyone used these two varios in the same flight? How do they compare?


I have compared in Flight the LX Navigation 1606, LXNAV V7, and the ButterFly vario to the CAI 302. Approximatle 10 hours of comparison with the 1606, and about 20 each with the V7 and Butterfly.

The cambridge was sold as a used item immediately after the testing. It is still a nice vario and well worth the $1000 a customer paid for the 302/303 combination but does not perform as well as the newer stuff.


Richard
www.craggyaero.com

  #4  
Old May 16th 13, 12:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Evan Ludeman[_4_]
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Default Butterfly vario side-by-side with ClearNav vario

On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:50:37 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Anyone used these two varios in the same flight? How do they compare?


That's going to yield slippery answers. Both instruments are evolving in time. Both have a huge number of user options to set. Given that, it's possible to get any sort of comparison (flattering or otherwise) you desire, so keep that in mind and ask question of the person who makes bold statements of superiority without disclosing a lot of tedious setup info.

We're flying the heck out of CNv at Sports Nats with an internal beta release and expect CNv-Club to be feature complete with a commercial release any day now. We're *extremely* pleased with it, but more about that later.

Good Soaring,

Evan Ludeman / CNi
  #5  
Old May 17th 13, 12:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Marc - Butterfly Avionics
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Default Butterfly vario side-by-side with ClearNav vario

I agree with Evan.

We are working very hard since over one year on refining and improving all the features of our vario. Its complex and we are very pleased by the results so far. What we do with our sensors has never been done before and leads to many new things we have to learn. We do not use more than 50% of its potential so far and yet it is really impressing.

Check out our Youtube channel (videos don't really give you the feeling but they at least show how the display looks): http://www.youtube.com/user/ButterflyAvionics

Best wishes
Marc
Butterfly Avionics

  #6  
Old May 17th 13, 06:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default Butterfly vario side-by-side with ClearNav vario

So am I correct that this generation of "Varios" has very similar sensors complements?

And the things that differentiates them is:
1)the software,
2)the display,
3)rate and breadth of access to raw sensor data and internally computed values (for example calculated wind direction) by external applications, and
4)pricing structure and packaging.
5)post-sales support
6)talent of the team and projected trajectory of the company

As the software evolves, the varios will continue to improve. A valid objective benchmark would be rather difficult and expensive to accomplish.

The decision of which to buy though is really very simple because both of them are excellent. Just pick one.











  #7  
Old May 17th 13, 06:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Default Butterfly vario side-by-side with ClearNav vario

I think the biggest advantge with Butterfly Variometer is that you get actually get several instruments in one package. The "normal" TE-based vario is very good, in my opinion on the level of the best traditional electric varios (Zander etc.). And then you get the netto vario that can be configured to be totally independent of the TE system (though it can be mixed with it), based on inertial sensors. After flying for a while with Butterfly one really sees how important it is to know wheather gust is vertical or horizontal. Traditional TE system can't separate these reliably. Netto variometer and real time wind calculated by the inertial system gives very accurate picture of the airmass around you (and as a side produt most accurate speed-to-fly commands I've seen). In this respect Butterfly Variometer is not comparable with other current systems. I think this fundamental difference is not completely understood here.

krasw
  #8  
Old May 17th 13, 07:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike the Strike
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Default Butterfly vario side-by-side with ClearNav vario

The advent of varios with inertial probes that enable the compensation or identification of horizontal gusts will be especially useful in hot strongly thermic areas, like Arizona where I mostly fly.

This is especially true on days when the air is stable but still rises strongly because of very strong surface heating. Thermals in these conditions often have a strong horizontal outflow that increases the energy of the ship as you approach the thermal. Since your total energy increases, all conventional varios indicate lift, leading the pilot to turn too soon. Many experienced pilots know this and compensate as best they can, but it would be great to have a reliable vario do this for you.

Mike
  #9  
Old May 17th 13, 09:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default Butterfly vario side-by-side with ClearNav vario

On Friday, May 17, 2013 2:23:21 PM UTC-4, Mike the Strike wrote:
The advent of varios with inertial probes that enable the compensation or identification of horizontal gusts


So does the ClearNav
1)have an inertial probe and
2)does it have the software (at the moment) to filter out horizontal gusts?

So does an "inertial probe" and an "accelerometer" both provide the same sensor inputs to the software?
  #10  
Old May 17th 13, 10:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
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Default Butterfly vario side-by-side with ClearNav vario

On Friday, May 17, 2013 2:59:18 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Friday, May 17, 2013 2:23:21 PM UTC-4, Mike the Strike wrote:

The advent of varios with inertial probes that enable the compensation or identification of horizontal gusts




So does the ClearNav

1)have an inertial probe and

2)does it have the software (at the moment) to filter out horizontal gusts?



So does an "inertial probe" and an "accelerometer" both provide the same sensor inputs to the software?


I'm not sure how it is actually being implemented but I would interpret "inertial probe" as an IMU (Inertial Measurement Unit). IMU's have 3-axis gyros and 3-axis accelerometers. The gyros keep the accelerometers aligned up-down, east-west and north-south. MEMS IMU's these days are nearly chip-size so one could be inside the vario with GPS position data serving as a calibration signal to compensate for drift. This means vertical acceleration can be measured and the integral (velocity) can be displayed as a vario signal. The advantages of an inertial vario include zero lag, gust insensitivity and complete freedom from TE probes and associated plumbing.

The gust/thermal discrimination is done by comparing the inertial-TE with air-data TE. If the air-data shows a gain in total energy but the inertial data doesn't, it's a gust.

The above is the most elegant implementation but partial implementation could also provide an advance over the old air-data only varios.
 




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