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Anyone Ground-Launched a Russia Glider?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 25th 17, 04:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 8
Default Anyone Ground-Launched a Russia Glider?

Hello,

I fly out of Hobbs, NM where we don't have a tow plane. We launch strictly by auto-tow. I am interested in a Russia AC-4B but am not comfortable ground launching from a nose hook. We currently fly Schweizer 1-26's and a 2-33, which has the hook located between the nose and the CG. When you climb high enough you can get a porpoising effect due to the tail stalling & unstalling. I would imagine this only gets worse with a hook in the nose, but I can't find anyone who has done it. The manual indicates that it can be done, but I wonder how much height you have to give up due to the hook location. I am also a little concerned about the angle being too sharp on the nose hook and possibly keeping it from releasing.

Has anyone flown (or seen) a Russia glider ground launched by the nose hook?

Thanks in advance,


Stephen
  #2  
Old August 25th 17, 06:00 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Posts: 2,099
Default Anyone Ground-Launched a Russia Glider?

On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 9:05:04 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Hello,

I fly out of Hobbs, NM where we don't have a tow plane. We launch strictly by auto-tow. I am interested in a Russia AC-4B but am not comfortable ground launching from a nose hook. We currently fly Schweizer 1-26's and a 2-33, which has the hook located between the nose and the CG. When you climb high enough you can get a porpoising effect due to the tail stalling & unstalling. I would imagine this only gets worse with a hook in the nose, but I can't find anyone who has done it. The manual indicates that it can be done, but I wonder how much height you have to give up due to the hook location. I am also a little concerned about the angle being too sharp on the nose hook and possibly keeping it from releasing.

Has anyone flown (or seen) a Russia glider ground launched by the nose hook?

Thanks in advance,


Stephen


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ac4/info is a Russia glider yahoo group.. You might get a response there. However, I don't recall anyone ground launching one on the group.
  #3  
Old August 25th 17, 07:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Peter Whitehead
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Posts: 27
Default Anyone Ground-Launched a Russia Glider?

On Friday, 25 August 2017 06:00:47 UTC+1, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 9:05:04 PM UTC-6, wrote:
Hello,

I fly out of Hobbs, NM where we don't have a tow plane. We launch strictly by auto-tow. I am interested in a Russia AC-4B but am not comfortable ground launching from a nose hook. We currently fly Schweizer 1-26's and a 2-33, which has the hook located between the nose and the CG. When you climb high enough you can get a porpoising effect due to the tail stalling & unstalling. I would imagine this only gets worse with a hook in the nose, but I can't find anyone who has done it. The manual indicates that it can be done, but I wonder how much height you have to give up due to the hook location. I am also a little concerned about the angle being too sharp on the nose hook and possibly keeping it from releasing.

Has anyone flown (or seen) a Russia glider ground launched by the nose hook?

Thanks in advance,


Stephen


Stephen, I would advise strongly against it. The only exception would be a "nose" hook with a back release like the Twin Lark IS28B2 (which also has a proper winch hook). You would, in that case, get a lousy launch but it shouldn't kill you. I wouldnt let my son use such an arrangement, and it also fails the "I would try it myself" test. Run a mile. I own five old gliders, two of which have the "compromise" hook, and they certainly do the porpoising on the winch or aut-tow as you describe. I have two IS29d's, one with just a compromise hook and the other with a "winch hook" as well, the difference on the launch ( height as well as behaviour) is huge.
The wheel has been invented, go for a round one, not a square one. Pete
  #4  
Old August 25th 17, 01:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Pete Smith[_5_]
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Posts: 3
Default Anyone Ground-Launched a Russia Glider?

This will only end in a broken glider and pilot

At 06:27 25 August 2017, Peter Whitehead wrote:
On Friday, 25 August 2017 06:00:47 UTC+1, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 9:05:04 PM UTC-6,


w=
rote:
Hello,
=20
I fly out of Hobbs, NM where we don't have a tow plane. We

launch
stri=
ctly by auto-tow. I am interested in a Russia AC-4B but am not
comfortable=
ground launching from a nose hook. We currently fly Schweizer 1-26's

and
=
a 2-33, which has the hook located between the nose and the CG.

When you
c=
limb high enough you can get a porpoising effect due to the tail stalling
&=
unstalling. I would imagine this only gets worse with a hook in the
nose,=
but I can't find anyone who has done it. The manual indicates that it
can=
be done, but I wonder how much height you have to give up due to

the hook
=
location. I am also a little concerned about the angle being too sharp

on
=
the nose hook and possibly keeping it from releasing.
=20
Has anyone flown (or seen) a Russia glider ground launched by the

nose
=
hook?
=20
Thanks in advance,
=20
=20
Stephen


Stephen, I would advise strongly against it. The only exception would

be a
=
"nose" hook with a back release like the Twin Lark IS28B2 (which also

has
a=
proper winch hook). You would, in that case, get a lousy launch but it
sho=
uldn't kill you. I wouldnt let my son use such an arrangement, and it

also
=
fails the "I would try it myself" test. Run a mile. I own five old
gliders,=
two of which have the "compromise" hook, and they certainly do the
porpois=
ing on the winch or aut-tow as you describe. I have two IS29d's, one

with
j=
ust a compromise hook and the other with a "winch hook" as well, the
differ=
ence on the launch ( height as well as behaviour) is huge.=20
The wheel has been invented, go for a round one, not a square one.

Pete


  #5  
Old August 29th 17, 04:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 236
Default Anyone Ground-Launched a Russia Glider?

On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 10:05:04 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Hello,

I fly out of Hobbs, NM where we don't have a tow plane. We launch strictly by auto-tow. I am interested in a Russia AC-4B but am not comfortable ground launching from a nose hook. We currently fly Schweizer 1-26's and a 2-33, which has the hook located between the nose and the CG. When you climb high enough you can get a porpoising effect due to the tail stalling & unstalling. I would imagine this only gets worse with a hook in the nose, but I can't find anyone who has done it. The manual indicates that it can be done, but I wonder how much height you have to give up due to the hook location. I am also a little concerned about the angle being too sharp on the nose hook and possibly keeping it from releasing.

Has anyone flown (or seen) a Russia glider ground launched by the nose hook?

Thanks in advance,


Stephen


Please don't ground launch anything by the nose hook. I have a lot of ground launch experience, auto tow and winch, and the very idea of ground launching with the nose hook scares the crap out of me. There have been some horrifying accidents where gliders went into the ground at high speed because the nose hook failed to release.

I do know of one instance of ground launching a Russia. It was an autolaunch situation and there was some slack and subsequent hard jerk on the rope during the initial launch. The Russia over rotated and stalled at low altitude. Busted the glider up. Luckily the pilot did not get severely injured. The glider was repaired and flew again.
  #6  
Old August 31st 17, 12:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 24
Default Anyone Ground-Launched a Russia Glider?

Don't ground launch with a nose hook, super dangerous.

Also, if you can afford a Russia, look for something with more performance for the same price. Like a Libelle or a Std, Cirrus.

Have fun at Hobbs!
  #7  
Old August 31st 17, 04:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Frank Whiteley
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Posts: 2,099
Default Anyone Ground-Launched a Russia Glider?

On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 9:09:52 AM UTC-6, WB wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 10:05:04 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Hello,

I fly out of Hobbs, NM where we don't have a tow plane. We launch strictly by auto-tow. I am interested in a Russia AC-4B but am not comfortable ground launching from a nose hook. We currently fly Schweizer 1-26's and a 2-33, which has the hook located between the nose and the CG. When you climb high enough you can get a porpoising effect due to the tail stalling & unstalling. I would imagine this only gets worse with a hook in the nose, but I can't find anyone who has done it. The manual indicates that it can be done, but I wonder how much height you have to give up due to the hook location. I am also a little concerned about the angle being too sharp on the nose hook and possibly keeping it from releasing.

Has anyone flown (or seen) a Russia glider ground launched by the nose hook?

Thanks in advance,


Stephen


Please don't ground launch anything by the nose hook. I have a lot of ground launch experience, auto tow and winch, and the very idea of ground launching with the nose hook scares the crap out of me. There have been some horrifying accidents where gliders went into the ground at high speed because the nose hook failed to release.

I do know of one instance of ground launching a Russia. It was an autolaunch situation and there was some slack and subsequent hard jerk on the rope during the initial launch. The Russia over rotated and stalled at low altitude. Busted the glider up. Luckily the pilot did not get severely injured. The glider was repaired and flew again.


https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...Final&IType=LA
  #8  
Old August 31st 17, 11:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Posts: 1,224
Default Anyone Ground-Launched a Russia Glider?

On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 16:34:55 -0700, collinshea1345 wrote:

Don't ground launch with a nose hook, super dangerous.

Also, if you can afford a Russia, look for something with more
performance for the same price. Like a Libelle or a Std, Cirrus.

.... and, all H.201 Std Libelles have both nose and belly hooks.
So do H.205 Club Libelles, which are cheaper, have bigger cockpits,
better airbrakes and a little less performance.

I can't comment about Std. Cirrii I've never flown one and there are none
at my club. We currently have two Std Libelles and one Club Libelle on
site.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #9  
Old August 31st 17, 05:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 374
Default Anyone Ground-Launched a Russia Glider?

I would hope that no gliding operation that offered ground launches would know enough to refuse to hook up any glider to a nose hook or any other hook without a back-release function and/or not authorised for winching or auto-towing - irrespective of the pilot's opinion on the matter.
  #10  
Old August 31st 17, 08:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WB
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 236
Default Anyone Ground-Launched a Russia Glider?

On Wednesday, August 30, 2017 at 10:44:13 PM UTC-5, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 9:09:52 AM UTC-6, WB wrote:
On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 10:05:04 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Hello,

I fly out of Hobbs, NM where we don't have a tow plane. We launch strictly by auto-tow. I am interested in a Russia AC-4B but am not comfortable ground launching from a nose hook. We currently fly Schweizer 1-26's and a 2-33, which has the hook located between the nose and the CG. When you climb high enough you can get a porpoising effect due to the tail stalling & unstalling. I would imagine this only gets worse with a hook in the nose, but I can't find anyone who has done it. The manual indicates that it can be done, but I wonder how much height you have to give up due to the hook location. I am also a little concerned about the angle being too sharp on the nose hook and possibly keeping it from releasing.

Has anyone flown (or seen) a Russia glider ground launched by the nose hook?

Thanks in advance,


Stephen


Please don't ground launch anything by the nose hook. I have a lot of ground launch experience, auto tow and winch, and the very idea of ground launching with the nose hook scares the crap out of me. There have been some horrifying accidents where gliders went into the ground at high speed because the nose hook failed to release.

I do know of one instance of ground launching a Russia. It was an autolaunch situation and there was some slack and subsequent hard jerk on the rope during the initial launch. The Russia over rotated and stalled at low altitude. Busted the glider up. Luckily the pilot did not get severely injured. The glider was repaired and flew again.


https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...Final&IType=LA



Hi Frank,

Thanks for posting the link to the NTSB report. Confirmed what I remembered.. My club trained that Russia pilot on ground launch with a typical 2:1 pulley system. During the accident flight, he was testing a 3:1 advantage pulley setup. Pretty much a hard landing and ground loop after the pitch up and stall.
 




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