What it took to get wings in WW II.

WHAT IT TOOK TO GET WINGS IN WW II (part one)

1. First apply. You would be given a physical and a written test. You could
pass the written test if you were a good high school student with good skills
in math, physics and the general sciences. The physical exam was a lot tougher.
The vast majority failed and never got into the cadet program.
2. If you got into the program you were sent to basic infantry training. Many
washed out due to the inability to meet the standards. Tests like the obstacle
course not made the required time was one cause.
3. If you made it through basic you were sent to CDT, a College Training
Detachment. I went to Kent State University in Ohio. Here there were two main
activities: flying and academic work. The flying consisted of 10 hours of dual
instruction in Piper Cubs. The academic work consisted of intense classroom
studies in math and physics. But these courses were custom designed to
concentrate on aviation applications. The math covered algebra, geometry, solid
geometry, trig and spherical trig, The physics concentrated on aero
applications and meteorology. Failure to meet academic standards resulted in
being washed out of the program. The washout rate in my class was about 10%
4. Those who survived this far went to classification in San Antonio Texas.
Here you took exams far more intensive than anything before. Intense physical
and exams in math and physics with psychological examinations to determine
emotional stability, determination and sense of commitment. The washout rate
here was greater than in any other steps in the process. Many washed out for
poor depth perception. Many were washed out on the Schneider Index, a very
critical set of physical standards. Some were washed out for being
psychologically unfit. The washout rate in my class was 90%. Those remaining
were then classified pilot, navigator, bombardier or bombardier/navigator..
5. You were then sent to the proper school, pilot,navigator or bombardier
school. I was sent to bombardier/navigator school at Big Spring, Texas.

MORE TO FOLLOW LATER

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
WHAT IT TOOK TO GET WINGS IN WW II (part one)

1. First apply. You would be given a physical and a written test. You
could
pass the written test if you were a good high school student with good
skills
in math, physics and the general sciences. The physical exam was a lot
tougher.
The vast majority failed and never got into the cadet program.
2. If you got into the program you were sent to basic infantry training.
Many
washed out due to the inability to meet the standards. Tests like the
obstacle
course not made the required time was one cause.
3. If you made it through basic you were sent to CDT, a College Training
Detachment. I went to Kent State University in Ohio. Here there were two
main
activities: flying and academic work. The flying consisted of 10 hours of
dual
instruction in Piper Cubs. The academic work consisted of intense
classroom
studies in math and physics. But these courses were custom designed to
concentrate on aviation applications. The math covered algebra, geometry,
solid
geometry, trig and spherical trig, The physics concentrated on aero
applications and meteorology. Failure to meet academic standards resulted
in
being washed out of the program. The washout rate in my class was about
10%
4. Those who survived this far went to classification in San Antonio
Texas.
Here you took exams far more intensive than anything before. Intense
physical
and exams in math and physics with psychological examinations to determine
emotional stability, determination and sense of commitment. The washout
rate
here was greater than in any other steps in the process. Many washed out
for
poor depth perception. Many were washed out on the Schneider Index, a very
critical set of physical standards. Some were washed out for being
psychologically unfit. The washout rate in my class was 90%. Those
remaining
were then classified pilot, navigator, bombardier or
bombardier/navigator..
5. You were then sent to the proper school, pilot,navigator or bombardier
school. I was sent to bombardier/navigator school at Big Spring, Texas.

MORE TO FOLLOW LATER

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


The pre war RAF experience seems to have been a little different

Frank Harbord in his biography describes his experiences on
volunteering for aircrew thus

In February 1939 the Air Ministry summoned me to London for an interview
with the RAF. After the interview and the medical examination they told me
to carry on working as normal and that the\ would contact me in due course.
About the middle of June 1939 1 received a letter from the Air Ministry
telling me that accommodation had been arranged for me at 130, Abington
Avenue, Northampton. 'Number 6 Elementary and Reserve Flying Training
School' had taken over part of St Georges College in St Georges Avenue,
Northampton. and 1 was to report there during the morning of July 10th 1939.

30, Abington Avenue turned out to be a moderate sized house in a red brick
terrace built about the turn of the century. It had three floors, five large
bedrooms and was situated near the County Cricket Ground. The landlady was a
widow, a Mrs Nichols, she made a living by letting the bedrooms and looking
after her lodgers. One of the bedrooms 1 was to share with another under
training Air Observer named Charley Wynn. For providing each UIT airman with
board and lodgings the landlady received six shillings a day. We had no
complaints about the standard of accommodation or the food. My bike was now
stored in the garden shed and at the weekends 1 would cycle home to
Stamford.

The distance from 130 Abington Avenue to St Georges College was about a mile
and the instructors were Merchant Navy Navigation Officers. On the first
morning we were issued with navigation equipment wich included a course and
speed calculator, a pair of dividers, parallel rule , douglas-protractor and
a copy of the Air Ministry Navigation Manual.

For practical flying experience we were transported to the aerodrome at
Sywel about 6 miles away. The aircraft used were Avro Anson's operated by
the civil firm of Brooklands Aviaton Ltd. They were flown by civilian pilots
with a civilian wireless operator.

Two chaps were discharged due to air sickness and 3 others failed to reach
the required specification. At the end of the course an RAF officer in
uniform, the first we had seen, turned up to swear in the remaining 50 or so
candidates and issue them with their unique serial numbers.

At this point Frank Harbord was posted to bombing and gunnery school at
Aldergrove

Keith

Subject: What it took to get wings in WW II.
From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 7/12/03 4:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
WHAT IT TOOK TO GET WINGS IN WW II (part one)

1. First apply. You would be given a physical and a written test. You
could
pass the written test if you were a good high school student with good
skills
in math, physics and the general sciences. The physical exam was a lot
tougher.
The vast majority failed and never got into the cadet program.
2. If you got into the program you were sent to basic infantry training.
Many
washed out due to the inability to meet the standards. Tests like the
obstacle
course not made the required time was one cause.
3. If you made it through basic you were sent to CDT, a College Training
Detachment. I went to Kent State University in Ohio. Here there were two
main
activities: flying and academic work. The flying consisted of 10 hours of
dual
instruction in Piper Cubs. The academic work consisted of intense
classroom
studies in math and physics. But these courses were custom designed to
concentrate on aviation applications. The math covered algebra, geometry,
solid
geometry, trig and spherical trig, The physics concentrated on aero
applications and meteorology. Failure to meet academic standards resulted
in
being washed out of the program. The washout rate in my class was about
10%
4. Those who survived this far went to classification in San Antonio
Texas.
Here you took exams far more intensive than anything before. Intense
physical
and exams in math and physics with psychological examinations to determine
emotional stability, determination and sense of commitment. The washout
rate
here was greater than in any other steps in the process. Many washed out
for
poor depth perception. Many were washed out on the Schneider Index, a very
critical set of physical standards. Some were washed out for being
psychologically unfit. The washout rate in my class was 90%. Those
remaining
were then classified pilot, navigator, bombardier or
bombardier/navigator..
5. You were then sent to the proper school, pilot,navigator or bombardier
school. I was sent to bombardier/navigator school at Big Spring, Texas.

MORE TO FOLLOW LATER

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


The pre war RAF experience seems to have been a little different

Frank Harbord in his biography describes his experiences on
volunteering for aircrew thus

In February 1939 the Air Ministry summoned me to London for an interview
with the RAF. After the interview and the medical examination they told me
to carry on working as normal and that the\ would contact me in due course.
About the middle of June 1939 1 received a letter from the Air Ministry
telling me that accommodation had been arranged for me at 130, Abington
Avenue, Northampton. 'Number 6 Elementary and Reserve Flying Training
School' had taken over part of St Georges College in St Georges Avenue,
Northampton. and 1 was to report there during the morning of July 10th 1939.

30, Abington Avenue turned out to be a moderate sized house in a red brick
terrace built about the turn of the century. It had three floors, five large
bedrooms and was situated near the County Cricket Ground. The landlady was a
widow, a Mrs Nichols, she made a living by letting the bedrooms and looking
after her lodgers. One of the bedrooms 1 was to share with another under

Interesting. Thank you. Quite a difference between the Brit and US procedure
It is as though the Brits did it one at a time while we used a production kind
of procedure.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Very interesting Art, thanks for sharing that. Thanks also for doing what
you did back then...without guys like you, where would we be today? I looked
through your site, & really enjoyed the stories & pictures. I grew up in
Odessa, just down the road from where you were in Cadet School. I went to an
ex-POW meeting there with my grandfather just a few months ago...you must
have some interesting memories of that place.

Steve Ruse


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
WHAT IT TOOK TO GET WINGS IN WW II (part one)

1. First apply. You would be given a physical and a written test. You
could
pass the written test if you were a good high school student with good
skills
in math, physics and the general sciences. The physical exam was a lot
tougher.
The vast majority failed and never got into the cadet program.
2. If you got into the program you were sent to basic infantry training.
Many
washed out due to the inability to meet the standards. Tests like the
obstacle
course not made the required time was one cause.
3. If you made it through basic you were sent to CDT, a College Training
Detachment. I went to Kent State University in Ohio. Here there were two
main
activities: flying and academic work. The flying consisted of 10 hours of
dual
instruction in Piper Cubs. The academic work consisted of intense
classroom
studies in math and physics. But these courses were custom designed to
concentrate on aviation applications. The math covered algebra, geometry,
solid
geometry, trig and spherical trig, The physics concentrated on aero
applications and meteorology. Failure to meet academic standards resulted
in
being washed out of the program. The washout rate in my class was about
10%
4. Those who survived this far went to classification in San Antonio
Texas.
Here you took exams far more intensive than anything before. Intense
physical
and exams in math and physics with psychological examinations to determine
emotional stability, determination and sense of commitment. The washout
rate
here was greater than in any other steps in the process. Many washed out
for
poor depth perception. Many were washed out on the Schneider Index, a very
critical set of physical standards. Some were washed out for being
psychologically unfit. The washout rate in my class was 90%. Those
remaining
were then classified pilot, navigator, bombardier or
bombardier/navigator..
5. You were then sent to the proper school, pilot,navigator or bombardier
school. I was sent to bombardier/navigator school at Big Spring, Texas.

MORE TO FOLLOW LATER

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: What it took to get wings in WW II.
From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 7/12/03 4:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


Interesting. Thank you. Quite a difference between the Brit and US
procedure
It is as though the Brits did it one at a time while we used a production
kind
of procedure.


You have to remember Frank Harbord joined pre-war. Once the war began
the system became much more of a production line and the RAF took
over the initial training scheme. He mentions that his was the last class
taught in this way.

Keith

Subject: What it took to get wings in WW II.
From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 7/13/03 4:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: What it took to get wings in WW II.
From: "Keith Willshaw"
Date: 7/12/03 4:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


Interesting. Thank you. Quite a difference between the Brit and US
procedure
It is as though the Brits did it one at a time while we used a production
kind
of procedure.


You have to remember Frank Harbord joined pre-war. Once the war began
the system became much more of a production line and the RAF took
over the initial training scheme. He mentions that his was the last class
taught in this way.

Keith


Keith,
I would be interested to know the course of academic study in the RAF. What
math and physics? How high the washout rate (,more or less)before even getting
to flying school? How high the washout rate for physical reasons? Any idea?.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: What it took to get wings in WW II.
From: "Steve Ruse"
Date: 7/13/03 12:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: gw7Qa.49824$H17.14799@sccrnsc02

Very interesting Art, thanks for sharing that. Thanks also for doing what
you did back then...without guys like you, where would we be today? I looked
through your site, & really enjoyed the stories & pictures. I grew up in
Odessa, just down the road from where you were in Cadet School. I went to an
ex-POW meeting there with my grandfather just a few months ago...you must
have some interesting memories of that place.

Steve Ruse


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
WHAT IT TOOK TO GET WINGS IN WW II (part one)

1. First apply. You would be given a physical and a written test. You
could
pass the written test if you were a good high school student with good
skills
in math, physics and the general sciences. The physical exam was a lot
tougher.
The vast majority failed and never got into the cadet program.
2. If you got into the program you were sent to basic infantry training.
Many
washed out due to the inability to meet the standards. Tests like the
obstacle
course not made the required time was one cause.
3. If you made it through basic you were sent to CDT, a College Training
Detachment. I went to Kent State University in Ohio. Here there were two
main
activities: flying and academic work. The flying consisted of 10 hours of
dual
instruction in Piper Cubs. The academic work consisted of intense
classroom
studies in math and physics. But these courses were custom designed to
concentrate on aviation applications. The math covered algebra, geometry,
solid
geometry, trig and spherical trig, The physics concentrated on aero
applications and meteorology. Failure to meet academic standards resulted
in
being washed out of the program. The washout rate in my class was about
10%
4. Those who survived this far went to classification in San Antonio
Texas.
Here you took exams far more intensive than anything before. Intense
physical
and exams in math and physics with psychological examinations to determine
emotional stability, determination and sense of commitment. The washout
rate
here was greater than in any other steps in the process. Many washed out
for
poor depth perception. Many were washed out on the Schneider Index, a very
critical set of physical standards. Some were washed out for being
psychologically unfit. The washout rate in my class was 90%. Those
remaining
were then classified pilot, navigator, bombardier or
bombardier/navigator..
5. You were then sent to the proper school, pilot,navigator or bombardier
school. I was sent to bombardier/navigator school at Big Spring, Texas.

MORE TO FOLLOW LATER

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer



Thanks for the kind words.I wasn't sure anyone would be interested in this
stuff. Part II will be flying school. Part three we become a crew and take the
B-26 Marauder through shakedown flights. Then off to the war.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: What it took to get wings in WW II.
From: "Jack G"
Date: 7/13/03 6:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Art - and anybody else interested -

Big Spring AAFB was renamed Webb AFB - there is a web site at:

http://www.hangar25.org/


Jack
(Webb AFB 1965 - 1968)


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
WHAT IT TOOK TO GET WINGS IN WW II (part one)

1. First apply. You would be given a physical and a written test. You
could
pass the written test if you were a good high school student with good
skills
in math, physics and the general sciences. The physical exam was a lot
tougher.
The vast majority failed and never got into the cadet program.
2. If you got into the program you were sent to basic infantry training.
Many
washed out due to the inability to meet the standards. Tests like the
obstacle
course not made the required time was one cause.
3. If you made it through basic you were sent to CDT, a College Training
Detachment. I went to Kent State University in Ohio. Here there were two
main
activities: flying and academic work. The flying consisted of 10 hours of
dual
instruction in Piper Cubs. The academic work consisted of intense
classroom
studies in math and physics. But these courses were custom designed to
concentrate on aviation applications. The math covered algebra, geometry,
solid
geometry, trig and spherical trig, The physics concentrated on aero
applications and meteorology. Failure to meet academic standards resulted
in
being washed out of the program. The washout rate in my class was about
10%
4. Those who survived this far went to classification in San Antonio
Texas.
Here you took exams far more intensive than anything before. Intense
physical
and exams in math and physics with psychological examinations to determine
emotional stability, determination and sense of commitment. The washout
rate
here was greater than in any other steps in the process. Many washed out
for
poor depth perception. Many were washed out on the Schneider Index, a very
critical set of physical standards. Some were washed out for being
psychologically unfit. The washout rate in my class was 90%. Those
remaining
were then classified pilot, navigator, bombardier or
bombardier/navigator..
5. You were then sent to the proper school, pilot,navigator or bombardier
school. I was sent to bombardier/navigator school at Big Spring, Texas.

MORE TO FOLLOW LATER

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer



LOVE THAT WEBSITE. Brings back fond memories Thanks. (sigh)



Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: What it took to get wings in WW II.
From: Andrew Chaplin
Date: 7/13/03 7:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:

I would be interested to know the course of academic study in the RAF.
What
math and physics? How high the washout rate (,more or less)before even
getting
to flying school? How high the washout rate for physical reasons? Any
idea?.

With the implementation of the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan,
the RAF shifted a significant portion of their aircrew training effort
out of the British Isles, so most training other than conversion and
OTU was conducted away from the ADGB battle area. You might have a
look in Spencer Dunmore's history of the BCATP, _Wings for Victory_,
and Larry Milberry's and Hugh Halliday's _The Royal Canadian Air Force
at War, 1939-1945_. IIRC, Bill McAndrew is working on a monograph on
training, ops and LMF problems in the Commonwealth air forces
operating against Germany; it or papers based on his research may
already be published. I think a fair idea of how the training was done
is covered in Murray Peden's _A Thousand Shall Fall_, but he was a
pilot rather than a bomb aimer.

(The Canadian PM of the day knew that the manpower costs of the BCATP
would initially obviate an RCAF air expeditionary force and so
minimize Canadian exposure to combat casualties; he was, however,
gambling on a much shorter war than what he got.)
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO


Thanks Andrew. I'll check those books out.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...


Keith,
I would be interested to know the course of academic study in the RAF.
What
math and physics? How high the washout rate (,more or less)before even
getting
to flying school? How high the washout rate for physical reasons? Any
idea?.


In the case of Frank Harbord the only screening he mentions prior to
attending
flying school was a fairly standard medical which included eyesight and
depth
perception. There were no academic requirements and the washout rate for all
reasons seems to have been low. They all received training as navigators,
gunners
and bomb aimers and were allocated duties pretty much on overall performance
and operational requirements.

He was 18 years old and had been working in a local factory and
was a member of the territorial army when he volunteered as an
air observer.

Of the 60 men who enlisted with him 55 made it into squadron service.
Only about 5% survived the war, most being killed in the desperate attacks
of summer 1940 when unescorted Blenheims and Battles were taking 80%
casualties in single raids attempting to stop the German advance in France.

Keith