1P = 1000W

On Jan 5, 6:37*pm, "Maxwell" #$$9#@%%%.^^^ wrote:

Then shame on you for not keeping up. These things have only been around for
25 years.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ummm, well... the PC has only been with us since 1982 but the first
stored-program computer system was installed at the Detroit Firemans
Insurance Fund in 1948.

The Navy of course had been using rather primitive 'computer' systems
based on punched-cards for file storage and vacuum tubes for 'memory'
since 1941 and by the mid-1950's such systems were commonly found not
only at shore stations but afloat, on certain classes of Supply
ships. My own involvement with computer systems dates from 1956 and
there were plenty of old hands in the ranks by that time.

When I retired from the Navy in 1976 it was the first time in my adult
life that I didn't have a computer to play with :-) So I built one.
As did a lot of other ham radio operators. The CPU was an Intel 8080
chip, for which I coughed up $300 and change... and had to wait about
six weeks for it to arrive. My first 'memory' card had a whole 1k of
8bit memory.

By the time the PC came along I had a fairly comprehensive system,
running dual 8" floppies with a Tarbell cassette for back-up. I/O
was, initially, a Teletype but that was replaced with a keyboard and
CRT. It wasn't until Intel introduced the AT platform that the
industry finally caught up to what amateurs were using.

As a point of interest, I'm still fiddlingwith it, although I seldom
bother with the software. Too dull (and too time consuming). Younger
hams still find it a lot of fun (fortunately) and have come up with
some remarkable plug & play interfaces, allowing you to simply plug
your ham radio into a suitably configured computer terminal. On the
other side of the coin, in recognition of this market, the
manufacturers of ham radio equipment now regularly provide a digital I/
O module for their transceivers, which often includes an automated
antenna tuner. I know my Yaesu FT-817 can connect me with hams around
the world on virtually any legal frequency... and even aim my antenna
(!!) were I rich enough to own such a thing :-) Of course, it's just
one computer talking to another, from a ship at sea to a ship in space
(!) but by disconnecting all the computer crap and replacing the mike
with a bug, I can still find someone willing to dit-dot there way
through a conversation, be it on bee keeping in Australia to diamond
mining in Canada(!)

-R.S.Hoover

wrote in message
...
On Jan 5, 6:37 pm, "Maxwell" #$$9#@%%%.^^^ wrote:

Then shame on you for not keeping up. These things have only been around
for
25 years.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ummm, well... the PC has only been with us since 1982 but the first
stored-program computer system was installed at the Detroit Firemans
Insurance Fund in 1948.

The Navy of course had been using rather primitive 'computer' systems
based on punched-cards for file storage and vacuum tubes for 'memory'
since 1941 and by the mid-1950's such systems were commonly found not
only at shore stations but afloat, on certain classes of Supply
ships. My own involvement with computer systems dates from 1956 and
there were plenty of old hands in the ranks by that time.

When I retired from the Navy in 1976 it was the first time in my adult
life that I didn't have a computer to play with :-) So I built one.
As did a lot of other ham radio operators. The CPU was an Intel 8080
chip, for which I coughed up $300 and change... and had to wait about
six weeks for it to arrive. My first 'memory' card had a whole 1k of
8bit memory.

By the time the PC came along I had a fairly comprehensive system,
running dual 8" floppies with a Tarbell cassette for back-up. I/O
was, initially, a Teletype but that was replaced with a keyboard and
CRT. It wasn't until Intel introduced the AT platform that the
industry finally caught up to what amateurs were using.

As a point of interest, I'm still fiddlingwith it, although I seldom
bother with the software. Too dull (and too time consuming). Younger
hams still find it a lot of fun (fortunately) and have come up with
some remarkable plug & play interfaces, allowing you to simply plug
your ham radio into a suitably configured computer terminal. On the
other side of the coin, in recognition of this market, the
manufacturers of ham radio equipment now regularly provide a digital I/
O module for their transceivers, which often includes an automated
antenna tuner. I know my Yaesu FT-817 can connect me with hams around
the world on virtually any legal frequency... and even aim my antenna
(!!) were I rich enough to own such a thing :-) Of course, it's just
one computer talking to another, from a ship at sea to a ship in space
(!) but by disconnecting all the computer crap and replacing the mike
with a bug, I can still find someone willing to dit-dot there way
through a conversation, be it on bee keeping in Australia to diamond
mining in Canada(!)

-R.S.Hoover

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I was counting from about 82, when the store bought PCs arrived. I
started with an Apple II in 81 or 82, and almost immediately stuck in a Z80
card and went CPM. I was more interested in business software than gaming,
and at the time Apple was still a good bit limited in software choices. But
that enabled Word Star, Super Calc III and dBase, so I was all set.

About the time I was ready to chump off for a couple of 8" drives, I found
my first 10 meg hard drive for $600. Couldn't imagine at the time why I
would ever need any more storage space. Upgraded a few years later to a PC
clone with a 20 meg.

About 87 or 88, I moved up to a 386/20 clone with a 65 meg SCSI. What a
bullet! Had a 40 meg tape back up with tapes about the size of a pack of
smokes. Visited a computer museum in Boston the same year that had an
excellent comparative display of computers from the 50s to present. Started
with a complete computer room all driven by punch cards. Worked up through
the computer that ran NORAD until about 1975, that had two 300k drum drives,
each about the size of a mini-van and containing 6 drums about 18" in
diameter and 24" long. Seemed impossible at the time I was putting 40 meg on
a tape cartridge the size of a pack smokes.

Added a 2 meter packet rig in about 92, but quickly tired of it. Lot more
fun working voice, and all the dial up bulletin boards of the era.

Seems just a few years later we all started struggling with one flavor of
Windoz or the other, and it seems I have just been using them for work or
personal business ever since. The internet has changed everything as well,
but at least it was for the better. I write very little code anymore, unless
it's just something I really need for business.

We have come a long way since 82. I always remember the comparison quoted
somewhere, that if development of the automobile had paralleled the
computer, today we could buy a 12 passenger sports car that would do 300 mph
and get 500 miles to the gallon for about $100. But about once a year,
without any warning, it would suddenly explode killing everyone inside.

Looks like a time for war stories so will jump in and add a few bits
for history.

IBM came out with their PC computer and I bought from a firm in
Dallas a mother board, 1000 resistors, capacitors, etc and a chip set
(CPU was a 8080). I soldered all the parts in and put the chip set in
and didn't work. Testing did not find the problem and company who
sold the "kit' had a testing program you could pay for. Sent system
back to them and they found that they had included a chip that would
not work in their system.They replace the chip and sent back no
charge, their error.

Then went to the Z80 and on into the new chips and accessories. Now
running a 2 cpu built by AMD and is fast enough for me. Have a small
secure LAN and can connect WIFI with LT from house.

Just installed a 22 inch LCD monitor today. So big I have to move my
head to read from side to side )

In USAF flew Air Defense Fighters with Radar and attack computers.
Radar steered you in the proper position to attack fire and at 20
seconds to go you held the trigger down and continues to follow the
computer instructions and when the solution was correct in computer it
launched your rockets, missile or atomic rocket.

During the Cuban missile crisis I ran the dias in a 8 hour
shift in the Sage system. First real time computer ever made. 50,000
tubes in the two computers and lots of A/C (40 degrees to cool the
tubes) in the big concrete sector block house that would stand a near
by atomic explosion.

Had some micky mouse computers before the IBM clone but very limited
ability compared to Windows, etc. Ran TRSDOS (Trash DOS) on some Model
II's in my company. Model II's would run CPM so changed to that. I'm
sure many of you went thru the same progression to the current Mac and
Windows computers.

SAC was using punch cards in a lot of their computers as late a 72. I
build their MIS program to brief Commander SAC using punch cards.

I haven't heard yet what was hot at the convention just held in Los
Vegas.

Enough war stories. Some one needs to take the old time postings and
put together on Internet for posterity.

OK, no acro just straight and level )

Big John

************************************************** ***************************
On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:35:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 5, 6:37*pm, "Maxwell" #$$9#@%%%.^^^ wrote:

Then shame on you for not keeping up. These things have only been around for
25 years.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ummm, well... the PC has only been with us since 1982 but the first
stored-program computer system was installed at the Detroit Firemans
Insurance Fund in 1948.

The Navy of course had been using rather primitive 'computer' systems
based on punched-cards for file storage and vacuum tubes for 'memory'
since 1941 and by the mid-1950's such systems were commonly found not
only at shore stations but afloat, on certain classes of Supply
ships. My own involvement with computer systems dates from 1956 and
there were plenty of old hands in the ranks by that time.


----clip----

On Jan 6, 11:26*pm, Tech Support wrote:
Looks like a time for war stories so will jump in and add a few bits
for history.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For me the real point of all this is that we ARE tool-using critters.
We already KNOW man can fly. We've got several examples of low-cost,
durable, RELIABLE engines that generate enough thrust to safely carry
loads on the order of 800 pounds.

The AIRFRAME is an example of a structure having optimized ratios of
strength-to-weight. Although the very best materials are expensive,
the cost of materials is not linear with regard to strength. Going to
other-than-optimum materials... giving away perhaps 10% of our
strength... which may also be read as increasing our WEIGHT by 10%...
or reducing our LOAD by 10%.... does not reflect a price redduction
of 10%... what it reflects is more on the order of a 90% REDUCTION in
price.

That is the key point that must be gotten across to people who are
willing to build their own airplanes.

Which leads-in to the second point, which was the original purpose of
this post and the origin of this thread. And that is the fact that
while a person my be willing to accept the facts as stated above, most
of them who are willing to try and build their own airplanes and power
it with a converted car engine LACK THE SKILLS TO DO SO. Which lead
to the billy-dew about a single picture being worth a thousand words
(ie, 1P=1000W).

The EAA hates this idea because it would impact their financial
position. And when the EAA doesn't like something, the 'something'
tends to get a bad press... or none at all :-)

-R.S.Hoover

wrote in message
...

The AIRFRAME is an example of a structure having optimized ratios of
strength-to-weight. Although the very best materials are expensive,
the cost of materials is not linear with regard to strength. Going to
other-than-optimum materials... giving away perhaps 10% of our
strength... which may also be read as increasing our WEIGHT by 10%...
or reducing our LOAD by 10%.... does not reflect a price redduction
of 10%... what it reflects is more on the order of a 90% REDUCTION in
price.

-R.S.Hoover

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't speak exactly to the percentages, but it still a very important
point. Same can often be said for the investment in engineering time.

Kind of makes you wonder how long our automobiles would last if they spent
an extra 10% on cost or weight. I just had an 06 Explorer with independent
rear suspension and an aluminum differential case, hang it's tongue out at
90k miles.