The Melting Deck Plates Muddle - V-22 on LHD deck....

StrategyPage.com
December 2, 2009

The Melting Deck Plates Muddle

by James Dunnigan

Earlier this year, the U.S. Navy discovered that the heat from the
MV-22's gas turbine engines, which blow their exhaust right on to the
deck of the LHD while waiting to take off, caused high enough
temperatures to the steel under the deck plates, to possibly warp the
understructure. This was already a known potential problem with the
new F-35B vertical takeoff jet fighter.
So now the Navy has two hot new aircraft that require an innovative
solution to the melting deck problem. The Navy also discovered that
the exhaust heat problem varied in intensity between different classes
of helicopter carriers (each with a different deck design.)

The Navy is looking for a solution that will not require extensive
modification of current carrier decks. This includes a lot of decks,
both the eleven large carriers, and the ten smaller LHAs and LHDs.
This is shaping up as another multi-billion dollar "oops" moment, as
the melting deck problem was never brought up during the long
development of either aircraft.

Previously, the Harrier was the only aircraft to put serious amounts
of heat on the carrier deck, but not enough to do damage. But when you
compare the Harrier engine with those on the V-22 and F-35B, you can
easily see that there is a lot more heat coming out of the two more
recent aircraft. Someone should have done the math before it became a
real problem.

In article
3f72b032-2be2-4377-a180-01d7a81404fe@d2
1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com,
Mike wrote:

StrategyPage.com
December 2, 2009

The Melting Deck Plates Muddle

by James Dunnigan

Earlier this year, the U.S. Navy discovered that the heat from the
MV-22's gas turbine engines, which blow their exhaust right on to the
deck of the LHD while waiting to take off, caused high enough
temperatures to the steel under the deck plates, to possibly warp the
understructure. This was already a known potential problem with the
new F-35B vertical takeoff jet fighter.
So now the Navy has two hot new aircraft that require an innovative
solution to the melting deck problem. The Navy also discovered that
the exhaust heat problem varied in intensity between different classes
of helicopter carriers (each with a different deck design.)

The Navy is looking for a solution that will not require extensive
modification of current carrier decks. This includes a lot of decks,
both the eleven large carriers, and the ten smaller LHAs and LHDs.
This is shaping up as another multi-billion dollar "oops" moment, as
the melting deck problem was never brought up during the long
development of either aircraft.

Previously, the Harrier was the only aircraft to put serious amounts
of heat on the carrier deck, but not enough to do damage. But when you
compare the Harrier engine with those on the V-22 and F-35B, you can
easily see that there is a lot more heat coming out of the two more
recent aircraft. Someone should have done the math before it became a
real problem.

Use what NASA uses for the shuttle?
Wouldn't cost that much at all

On Dec 10, 12:23*am, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" atlas-
wrote:
In article
3f72b032-2be2-4377-a180-01d7a81404fe@d2
1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com,


*Mike wrote:
StrategyPage.com

The Navy is looking for a solution that will not require extensive
modification of current carrier decks. This includes a lot of decks,
both the eleven large carriers, and the ten smaller LHAs and LHDs.
This is shaping up as another multi-billion dollar "oops" moment, as
the melting deck problem was never brought up during the long
development of either aircraft.

Previously, the Harrier was the only aircraft to put serious amounts
of heat on the carrier deck, but not enough to do damage. But when you
compare the Harrier engine with those on the V-22 and F-35B, you can
easily see that there is a lot more heat coming out of the two more
recent aircraft. Someone should have done the math before it became a
real problem.

Use what NASA uses for the shuttle?
Wouldn't cost that much at all

It is a BIG f-ing "oops", and I think that the Navy's RFP is a little
silly. They want a product that doesn't require alteration to the
flight deck, is easily applied and repaired, and doesn't cost much.
Presumably it has to be environmentally friendly too. It wouldn't
surprise me if someone asked for it to be organic as well.

I dunno, I'd assume that NASA could provide some expertise there, but
whether or not the Navy actually is willing to ask for it is another
story.

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 05:46:12 -0800 (PST), Typhoon502
wrote:

On Dec 10, 12:23*am, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" atlas-
wrote:
In article
3f72b032-2be2-4377-a180-01d7a81404fe@d2
1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com,


*Mike wrote:
StrategyPage.com

The Navy is looking for a solution that will not require extensive
modification of current carrier decks. This includes a lot of decks,
both the eleven large carriers, and the ten smaller LHAs and LHDs.
This is shaping up as another multi-billion dollar "oops" moment, as
the melting deck problem was never brought up during the long
development of either aircraft.

Previously, the Harrier was the only aircraft to put serious amounts
of heat on the carrier deck, but not enough to do damage. But when you
compare the Harrier engine with those on the V-22 and F-35B, you can
easily see that there is a lot more heat coming out of the two more
recent aircraft. Someone should have done the math before it became a
real problem.

Use what NASA uses for the shuttle?
Wouldn't cost that much at all

It is a BIG f-ing "oops", and I think that the Navy's RFP is a little
silly. They want a product that doesn't require alteration to the
flight deck, is easily applied and repaired, and doesn't cost much.
Presumably it has to be environmentally friendly too. It wouldn't
surprise me if someone asked for it to be organic as well.

A product that meets your requirement is allum-impregnated teak.
I'd be quite astonished if the navy didn't know it, they read
history too. Of course, splinters from the stuff are painful and
tend to go septic, it costs terribly, . . . .

To me, it looks as if they know that they'll have to cut steel
but need to do some homework first.


I dunno, I'd assume that NASA could provide some expertise there, but
whether or not the Navy actually is willing to ask for it is another
story.

Peter Skelton

In article a12ee279-bf71-45e8-8d2e-2ee21c1d9159
@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com, says...
On Dec 10, 12:23*am, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" atlas-
wrote:
In article
3f72b032-2be2-4377-a180-01d7a81404fe@d2
1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com,


*Mike wrote:
StrategyPage.com

The Navy is looking for a solution that will not require extensive
modification of current carrier decks. This includes a lot of decks,
both the eleven large carriers, and the ten smaller LHAs and LHDs.
This is shaping up as another multi-billion dollar "oops" moment, as
the melting deck problem was never brought up during the long
development of either aircraft.

Previously, the Harrier was the only aircraft to put serious amounts
of heat on the carrier deck, but not enough to do damage. But when you
compare the Harrier engine with those on the V-22 and F-35B, you can
easily see that there is a lot more heat coming out of the two more
recent aircraft. Someone should have done the math before it became a
real problem.

Use what NASA uses for the shuttle?
Wouldn't cost that much at all

It is a BIG f-ing "oops", and I think that the Navy's RFP is a little
silly. They want a product that doesn't require alteration to the
flight deck, is easily applied and repaired, and doesn't cost much.
Presumably it has to be environmentally friendly too. It wouldn't
surprise me if someone asked for it to be organic as well.

I dunno, I'd assume that NASA could provide some expertise there, but
whether or not the Navy actually is willing to ask for it is another
story.

Maybe they need the mil-spec version of the nanoparticle insulating
paint:

http://www.industrial-nanotech.com/n...me_protect.htm


Mark Borgerson

"Mark Borgerson" wrote in message
...

Maybe they need the mil-spec version of the nanoparticle insulating paint:

AFAIK, that stuff is snake oil.

Vaughn

On Dec 9, 11:23*pm, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" atlas-
wrote:
In article
3f72b032-2be2-4377-a180-01d7a81404fe@d2
1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com,



*Mike wrote:
StrategyPage.com
December 2, 2009

The Melting Deck Plates Muddle

by James Dunnigan

Earlier this year, the U.S. Navy discovered that the heat from the
MV-22's gas turbine engines, which blow their exhaust right on to the
deck of the LHD while waiting to take off, caused high enough
temperatures to the steel under the deck plates, to possibly warp the
understructure. This was already a known potential problem with the
new F-35B vertical takeoff jet fighter.
So now the Navy has two hot new aircraft that require an innovative
solution to the melting deck problem. The Navy also discovered that
the exhaust heat problem varied in intensity between different classes
of helicopter carriers (each with a different deck design.)

The Navy is looking for a solution that will not require extensive
modification of current carrier decks. This includes a lot of decks,
both the eleven large carriers, and the ten smaller LHAs and LHDs.
This is shaping up as another multi-billion dollar "oops" moment, as
the melting deck problem was never brought up during the long
development of either aircraft.

Previously, the Harrier was the only aircraft to put serious amounts
of heat on the carrier deck, but not enough to do damage. But when you
compare the Harrier engine with those on the V-22 and F-35B, you can
easily see that there is a lot more heat coming out of the two more
recent aircraft. Someone should have done the math before it became a
real problem.

Use what NASA uses for the shuttle?
Wouldn't cost that much at all

Yeah except for not walking, parking, raining, hailing or dropping a
wrench on the coating it would be great.

In article
93ee764a-0400-499b-b519-37e47ef04416@v2
5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com,
Richard wrote:

On Dec 9, 11:23*pm, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" atlas-
wrote:
In article
3f72b032-2be2-4377-a180-01d7a81404fe@d2
1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com,



*Mike wrote:
StrategyPage.com
December 2, 2009

The Melting Deck Plates Muddle

by James Dunnigan

Earlier this year, the U.S. Navy discovered that the heat from the
MV-22's gas turbine engines, which blow their exhaust right on to the
deck of the LHD while waiting to take off, caused high enough
temperatures to the steel under the deck plates, to possibly warp the
understructure. This was already a known potential problem with the
new F-35B vertical takeoff jet fighter.
So now the Navy has two hot new aircraft that require an innovative
solution to the melting deck problem. The Navy also discovered that
the exhaust heat problem varied in intensity between different classes
of helicopter carriers (each with a different deck design.)

The Navy is looking for a solution that will not require extensive
modification of current carrier decks. This includes a lot of decks,
both the eleven large carriers, and the ten smaller LHAs and LHDs.
This is shaping up as another multi-billion dollar "oops" moment, as
the melting deck problem was never brought up during the long
development of either aircraft.

Previously, the Harrier was the only aircraft to put serious amounts
of heat on the carrier deck, but not enough to do damage. But when you
compare the Harrier engine with those on the V-22 and F-35B, you can
easily see that there is a lot more heat coming out of the two more
recent aircraft. Someone should have done the math before it became a
real problem.

Use what NASA uses for the shuttle?
Wouldn't cost that much at all

Yeah except for not walking, parking, raining, hailing or dropping a
wrench on the coating it would be great.

Actually I was thinking of what they do
at the launch pad during launch, not the
tiles on the shuttle

On Dec 10, 11:58*pm, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" atlas-
wrote:
In article
93ee764a-0400-499b-b519-37e47ef04416@v2
5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com,



*Richard wrote:
On Dec 9, 11:23*pm, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" atlas-
wrote:
In article
3f72b032-2be2-4377-a180-01d7a81404fe@d2
1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com,

*Mike wrote:
StrategyPage.com
December 2, 2009

The Melting Deck Plates Muddle

by James Dunnigan

Earlier this year, the U.S. Navy discovered that the heat from the
MV-22's gas turbine engines, which blow their exhaust right on to the
deck of the LHD while waiting to take off, caused high enough
temperatures to the steel under the deck plates, to possibly warp the
understructure. This was already a known potential problem with the
new F-35B vertical takeoff jet fighter.
So now the Navy has two hot new aircraft that require an innovative
solution to the melting deck problem. The Navy also discovered that
the exhaust heat problem varied in intensity between different classes
of helicopter carriers (each with a different deck design.)

The Navy is looking for a solution that will not require extensive
modification of current carrier decks. This includes a lot of decks,
both the eleven large carriers, and the ten smaller LHAs and LHDs.
This is shaping up as another multi-billion dollar "oops" moment, as
the melting deck problem was never brought up during the long
development of either aircraft.

Previously, the Harrier was the only aircraft to put serious amounts
of heat on the carrier deck, but not enough to do damage. But when you
compare the Harrier engine with those on the V-22 and F-35B, you can
easily see that there is a lot more heat coming out of the two more
recent aircraft. Someone should have done the math before it became a
real problem.

Use what NASA uses for the shuttle?
Wouldn't cost that much at all

Yeah except for not walking, parking, raining, hailing or dropping a
wrench on the coating it would be great.

Actually I was thinking of what they do
at the launch pad during launch, not the
tiles on the shuttle

Ever see photos of the pad, there is a large water tower near it. I
think 3 seconds before launch, when engines start up, there is a water
infusion into the bucket that thrust goes into. Think multiple streams
of water. Sucker lights up, hits the water, massive steam and thrust
go out the channels away from the launch pad. That's the big clouds
that occur. Makes pad much more reusable.

I think Shuttle was first system to use that, could be wrong. Makes
entire complex much more reusable.

If you can get some old Shuttle launch footage, that's one of the
standard shots from NASA and main engine start.

Awesome. Lots of plumbing though.

On Dec 11, 2:42*am, frank wrote:
On Dec 10, 11:58*pm, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" atlas-



wrote:
In article
93ee764a-0400-499b-b519-37e47ef04416@v2
5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com,

*Richard wrote:
On Dec 9, 11:23*pm, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds" atlas-
wrote:
In article
3f72b032-2be2-4377-a180-01d7a81404fe@d2
1g2000yqn.googlegroups.com,

*Mike wrote:
StrategyPage.com
December 2, 2009

The Melting Deck Plates Muddle

by James Dunnigan

Earlier this year, the U.S. Navy discovered that the heat from the
MV-22's gas turbine engines, which blow their exhaust right on to the
deck of the LHD while waiting to take off, caused high enough
temperatures to the steel under the deck plates, to possibly warp the
understructure. This was already a known potential problem with the
new F-35B vertical takeoff jet fighter.
So now the Navy has two hot new aircraft that require an innovative
solution to the melting deck problem. The Navy also discovered that
the exhaust heat problem varied in intensity between different classes
of helicopter carriers (each with a different deck design.)

The Navy is looking for a solution that will not require extensive
modification of current carrier decks. This includes a lot of decks,
both the eleven large carriers, and the ten smaller LHAs and LHDs..
This is shaping up as another multi-billion dollar "oops" moment, as
the melting deck problem was never brought up during the long
development of either aircraft.

Previously, the Harrier was the only aircraft to put serious amounts
of heat on the carrier deck, but not enough to do damage. But when you
compare the Harrier engine with those on the V-22 and F-35B, you can
easily see that there is a lot more heat coming out of the two more
recent aircraft. Someone should have done the math before it became a
real problem.

Use what NASA uses for the shuttle?
Wouldn't cost that much at all

Yeah except for not walking, parking, raining, hailing or dropping a
wrench on the coating it would be great.

Actually I was thinking of what they do
at the launch pad during launch, not the
tiles on the shuttle

Ever see photos of the pad, there is a large water tower near it. I
think 3 seconds before launch, when engines start up, there is a water
infusion into the bucket that thrust goes into. Think multiple streams
of water. Sucker lights up, hits the water, massive steam and thrust
go out the channels away from the launch pad. That's the big clouds
that occur. Makes pad much more reusable.

I think Shuttle was first system to use that, could be wrong. Makes
entire complex much more reusable.

If you can get some old Shuttle launch footage, that's one of the
standard shots from NASA and main engine start.

Awesome. Lots of plumbing though.

One of the professed goals of the system is sound suppression. That's
one of the events the crowds come to the launches for---that
magnificent roar like the end of the world.