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FAI Sailplane Grand Prix USA (Results, reports, media...)



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 28th 16, 08:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Stroschine
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Posts: 25
Default FAI Sailplane Grand Prix USA (Results, reports, media...)

On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 4:41:33 AM UTC-7, Sean wrote:
Thanks Lane. Will try launching app closer to launch, 5 minutes or so now.

SGP USA Updates (interviews, podium, live tracking replay, photos, etc) for Race 3 are now available on Facebook SGP USA page and the FAI SGP YouTube channel.

We are all having an absolute ball here in Ionia. The SGP USA competitors are really enjoying the opportunity to truly race sailplanes head to head.. It's really incredibly fun, exciting and highly competitive. I have to say the push to stay ahead of Garret Yesterday was heart pounding excitement and I am enjoying this racing more than any other sailplane event yet. Simply awesome.

The shorter race track yesterday (118 km, 2 knot lift to 4500) was a HUGE hit with the pilots (and spectators!). On one had, it was all that we could safely do yesterday given the forecast and frontal passage which accused at 4:45-5:15 pm. But on the other hand, the shorter 1 - 1.5 hour race hugely amplified every decision and was amazing to witness both tactically and strategically. The start was key, but patience also paid off as the gaggle pushed a bit to hard at times. As usual, the gaggle quickly exploded into numerous small groups and the leaders got away free. It was not one clump as many assume.

I really wish the trackers were more accurate too. This race in particular would have been amazing to watch live with accurate tracking, although I think our crack commentators are doing a great job with compensating for the known lag of the spot trackers, etc. Kudos to them for their great work.. I could honestly see the short race track being television friendly (or at least internet broadcast friendly) similar to Americas cup World Series events.

Back to Ionia today, the weather here today is again challenging. Two stationary fronts are sitting N and S. A window to fly is possible. If this happens, we will likely try for another 100km minimum distance race. The SGP format makes these short races extremely fun. This sentiment was clearly unanimous among the smiling pilots yesterday. What a blast!!!

Sincerely,

Sean Fidler
7T - SGP Organizer


I agree with you Sean about the trackers being a problem. The biggest problem that I have with watching is the tracker reporting intervals. It can be really hard to follow when you see that some refreshed a minute before while others are 15+min, then when those finally do update the whole look of the race has changed. The commentators have been doing a great job trying to deal with it but there just isn't really anything for them to do except for talk through it.

Is there a way to set the refresh interval on the trackers?

Overall though it has been fun to watch, you guys are doing a great job. Hopefully this will happen more in the US in the future.

Dan
  #22  
Old July 28th 16, 10:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 173
Default FAI Sailplane Grand Prix USA (Results, reports, media...)

Anyone know what sort of tracking and visualization system was used at the SGP Varese last year? They seemed to have almost minute by minute updates from most competitors and the visualization through the Silent Wings program was superb. All competitor data streams included altitude and speed. Not sure if it was airspeed or ground speed being reported, though.

At one point during one of the broadcasts they discussed the installation of special receivers and antennas at several locations - maybe they were using some variant of the FLARM OpenGlider Network? Seems like there may be some opportunity for technology sharing amongst the various venues.

In any case, my hat is off to Sean and the other organizers of this event. Flying a task, interviewing pilots,writing and posting the race reports, managing the contest, personally responding to email requests about the logo apparel, etc. Just wow, great job keeping it all together!

Robert

On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 2:21:37 PM UTC-5, Dan Stroschine wrote:
On Thursday, July 28, 2016 at 4:41:33 AM UTC-7, Sean wrote:
Thanks Lane. Will try launching app closer to launch, 5 minutes or so now.

SGP USA Updates (interviews, podium, live tracking replay, photos, etc) for Race 3 are now available on Facebook SGP USA page and the FAI SGP YouTube channel.

We are all having an absolute ball here in Ionia. The SGP USA competitors are really enjoying the opportunity to truly race sailplanes head to head. It's really incredibly fun, exciting and highly competitive. I have to say the push to stay ahead of Garret Yesterday was heart pounding excitement and I am enjoying this racing more than any other sailplane event yet. Simply awesome.

The shorter race track yesterday (118 km, 2 knot lift to 4500) was a HUGE hit with the pilots (and spectators!). On one had, it was all that we could safely do yesterday given the forecast and frontal passage which accused at 4:45-5:15 pm. But on the other hand, the shorter 1 - 1.5 hour race hugely amplified every decision and was amazing to witness both tactically and strategically. The start was key, but patience also paid off as the gaggle pushed a bit to hard at times. As usual, the gaggle quickly exploded into numerous small groups and the leaders got away free. It was not one clump as many assume.

I really wish the trackers were more accurate too. This race in particular would have been amazing to watch live with accurate tracking, although I think our crack commentators are doing a great job with compensating for the known lag of the spot trackers, etc. Kudos to them for their great work. I could honestly see the short race track being television friendly (or at least internet broadcast friendly) similar to Americas cup World Series events.

Back to Ionia today, the weather here today is again challenging. Two stationary fronts are sitting N and S. A window to fly is possible. If this happens, we will likely try for another 100km minimum distance race. The SGP format makes these short races extremely fun. This sentiment was clearly unanimous among the smiling pilots yesterday. What a blast!!!

Sincerely,

Sean Fidler
7T - SGP Organizer


I agree with you Sean about the trackers being a problem. The biggest problem that I have with watching is the tracker reporting intervals. It can be really hard to follow when you see that some refreshed a minute before while others are 15+min, then when those finally do update the whole look of the race has changed. The commentators have been doing a great job trying to deal with it but there just isn't really anything for them to do except for talk through it.

Is there a way to set the refresh interval on the trackers?

Overall though it has been fun to watch, you guys are doing a great job. Hopefully this will happen more in the US in the future.

Dan


  #23  
Old July 29th 16, 12:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean[_2_]
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Posts: 174
Default FAI Sailplane Grand Prix USA (Results, reports, media...)

Interviews, reports, video, podium all coming up this morning. We were all tired last night and are going to get this all done at the pilots meeting. Probably a no fly day but a small chance of a late task still exists.

The SGP Worlds last season used a custom tracker device (optimized for Europe) and this was available to us for SGP USA. I believe the are utilizing both satellite and mobile. It was fairly expensive and also required staff onsite to support and manage. The mobile trackers have similar performance in the USA when they work properly. Again, huge mistake to allow Spot trackers. One success was John Mittel who allowed me to talk him into buying a cheap pay as you go android phone and then installing IGCDroid from Google Play. This is working very well and BZ has one of the more reliable tracks during the commentary.

I think this technology will improve but I also think all pilots owe it to themselves and the sport to invest (time/small amount of money) in getting up to speed with the mobile trackers. This will make watching any contest far more enjoyable. When the trackers are working well, you almost have a live SeeYou replay.

I have a new hashtag. #justsaynotospottracking. ;-)

Sean
7T
SGP USA Organizer

  #24  
Old July 29th 16, 03:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 209
Default FAI Sailplane Grand Prix USA (Results, reports, media...)

"Just say no to SPOT" is very appropriate for the viewing experience that Sean is driving toward. However,the SSA Sailplane Tracking Committee has been very careful to distinguish that SPOT/InReach are recommended onboard for emergency recovery and emergency messaging. The mobile tracking apps are quantifiably better for viewing flights and this is there strong suit. Luckily Pedja has devoted many hours to writing code allowing a pilot to have multiple devices.

Please carry your SPOT/InReach in the tracking mode for emergency purposes and carry your mobile tracking app for spectator viewing purposes. Also, carry a spare phone battery so you will be sure to have phone juice in the event of a landout. My Iphone 6 will last about six hours in tracking mode. Earlier models have less efficient GPS's and therefore drain the battery sooner.

Also, we have found that creating a user account on GlidePort and registering all your devices directly with GlidePort is necessary for full utility. Please make sure your SSA number is correct in your GlidePort account so Winscore can find you. The SSA server uploads data to GlidePort but it may take several days before new data from the SSA is integrated in the GlidePort database.

When you use a mobile tracking app do not turn it on hours before launch like you do with SPOT/InReach. To preserve phone battery the apps recognize they are not in flight and hibernate. Turn on the app as you are getting your chute on. Glance at it before the race start and make sure the the Apple version does not report "cold" in the status banner. Make sure the Android version has a green "go" light. If either are not active, "stop and start" the tracking to wake it up. Then go have fun and let the mobile app do its thing. Afterwards you can email yourself the IGC file for study or OLC upload.

Sean and gang are doing a great job of promoting a race, day by day. Its hard work. Its amazingly hard to get the competitors to recognize the usefulness of real time tracking, its hard to remind them to turn it on, its frustrating when there are gaps in coverage, its hard for the commentators to keep the chatter interesting for a whole race and its hard to take negative comments from onlookers. I think Sean's effort is a watershed event in many regards. We have a lot to learn from it. Only through efforts like this will learn what works and what needs improving. This race and its efforts strike a chord with me. It is moving promotion in the direction I believe it needs to go. Just "say yes" to good promotion in whatever form it takes.

Thanks Guys!
  #25  
Old July 29th 16, 04:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Tracking Using IGCDroid and a Cheap, Pay As You Go Phone

Now you've got my attention, Sean.

Could you elaborate a bit on this phone, please? Where do I go to
evaluate one? What might I expect to pay for a season of use? I might
be willing to go this route whereas I'm not willing to pay for a data
plan for my current Android phone.

I understand you're very busy with the SGP right now (congrats, BTW),
but I'd like to see you publish something here when you get the chance.

Good flying!

Dan
5J

On 7/29/2016 5:36 AM, Sean wrote:
snip


Again, huge mistake to allow Spot trackers. One success was John Mittel who allowed me to talk him into buying a cheap pay as you go android phone and then installing IGCDroid from Google Play. This is working very well and BZ has one of the more reliable tracks during the commentary.


--
Dan, 5J
  #26  
Old July 29th 16, 06:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 190
Default Tracking Using IGCDroid and a Cheap, Pay As You Go Phone

Dan, just to be clear, the tracking devices being discussed are not hardware but third party software applications which are added to your personal Android or iPhone celluar smartphone. igc.droid ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...m.ajw.igcdroid ) would be used on an Android phone and there is a one-time charge of $10.00. If you have an iPhone then you would use the free Glide Track app ( https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/glid...888910571?mt=8 ). Both of these applications "report" to Glide Port http://glideport.aero/

If you are dead set against having a smartphone (which requires some sort of data plan) then you are just SOL. FWIW, my StraighTalk Samsung Grand Prime smartphone came from Wal-Mart, cost $150.00, uses the Verizon network, and costs $41.18 a month for unlimited talk, text, and 5GB data.

If you want to "try this out" you could borrow anyone's smartphone and add the igc.droid or Glide Track app and evaluate. No big deal. Just remember, these apps will only work when your phone has cell service and of course this is not always the case in some soaring arenas. This is where the DeLorme InReach has the advantage; I am not a SPOT supporter.

If you are interested, you should contact the application developer and inquire about tracking data usage amounts depending on the frequency of location reports. The shorter the report interval, the more data usage.

This is a great tool and will help grow the art and science of soaring; please get on-board soon.





On Friday, July 29, 2016 at 11:57:02 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Now you've got my attention, Sean.

Could you elaborate a bit on this phone, please? Where do I go to
evaluate one? What might I expect to pay for a season of use? I might
be willing to go this route whereas I'm not willing to pay for a data
plan for my current Android phone.

I understand you're very busy with the SGP right now (congrats, BTW),
but I'd like to see you publish something here when you get the chance.

Good flying!

Dan
5J

On 7/29/2016 5:36 AM, Sean wrote:
snip


Again, huge mistake to allow Spot trackers. One success was John Mittel who allowed me to talk him into buying a cheap pay as you go android phone and then installing IGCDroid from Google Play. This is working very well and BZ has one of the more reliable tracks during the commentary.


--
Dan, 5J


  #27  
Old July 29th 16, 09:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 155
Default Tracking Using IGCDroid and a Cheap, Pay As You Go Phone

I will share a little on my tracking experience. I am fairly new to contests - and believe that tracking is extremely important of many reasons. My wife is also my crew.

Originally I had SPOT - we know the pluses and minuses here - it is OK, family and friends find it boring to watch and your crew knows about where you are sometimes but not how high you are so........

I was a very early adapter with ICGDroid - this made a world of difference for family and crew - it was almost like fly with me. Because it was early and the market is tiny, there were some technical issues, but it is/was the best - unfortunately it does depend on cell coverage - so if your carrier doesn't have many towers in the area it does not work. At my home filed, this is my preferred device! by far - you get height, speed, vario and shows you thermaling.

I just purchased InReach - after I figured out (with help from a good friend) I purchased the correct plan - so I can adjust the interval to 2 minutes.. So far this has been excellent in terms of consistency. My wife was getting frustrated with the other trackers. BUT it is not as good as IGCdroid when it works well. and it is expensive.

So From here on out I will use InReach for all contests and flying in odd places - IGCDroid for flying local. and I have a SPOT I am willing to give to a needy pilot in need of tracking (kind of)

I hope all the excellent people working on tracking keep up the great work - when it is done right - it makes a huge difference in getting non glider pilot interest. We all fly because or the moral support (or at least tolerance) of Family & friends. When you watch the worlds you see how great tracking is possible - so it is a great cause to get behind.

Congrats to Sean for pushing our sport forward!! excellent job!!

WH
  #28  
Old July 29th 16, 09:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 209
Default Tracking Using IGCDroid and a Cheap, Pay As You Go Phone

Dan

A typical five hour hour flight will use less data than sending a picture with your phone. As Sean said, you can go to Walmart and purchase the cheapest Android phone with a monthly "prepaid" data plan. Just reload the phone as needed. People are typically paying $40 per month for such a phone. Probably the same as adding data to your current phone, assuming yours is capable.

Despite assumptions to the contrary, the tracking apps use very little data due to the compressing of data. Also they can adjust to poor reception areas for the same reason. We do see some erratic altitude reports on some phones in some areas. This is caused be previous generation phones lack of barometric sensors and poor gps reception on some traces. Latest generation phones work better and clear view of sky in carbon ships.

Sorry this thread has been hijacked. Go Sailplane Grand Prix. Go Competitors. Go Sean and Tiffany! Go Soaring!

Lane
  #29  
Old July 29th 16, 10:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Tracking Using IGCDroid and a Cheap, Pay As You Go Phone

First off, if I hijacked the thread, I apologize. I thought that using
a different subject line would create a new thread. Maybe someone will
"hijack" it back to the original subject.

I have a smart phone and it works with all cell carriers. And it only
costs $9/month since I choose not to have a $40/month data plan because
I don't do Twitter or Facebook and I don't want to surf the web with my
phone. It does all the other data stuff via wifi, but you won't see
that in flight any time soon... From the few short responses above, it
looks like I won't be getting a tracking device any time soon. My wife
and I have discussed this and she's OK with it. She hikes alone in the
wilderness when she's not flying with me and I'm OK with that, too.

Thanks again for the responses and "Go Sean and gang at the SGP!"

On 7/29/2016 2:26 PM, wrote:
Dan

A typical five hour hour flight will use less data than sending a picture with your phone. As Sean said, you can go to Walmart and purchase the cheapest Android phone with a monthly "prepaid" data plan. Just reload the phone as needed. People are typically paying $40 per month for such a phone. Probably the same as adding data to your current phone, assuming yours is capable.

Despite assumptions to the contrary, the tracking apps use very little data due to the compressing of data. Also they can adjust to poor reception areas for the same reason. We do see some erratic altitude reports on some phones in some areas. This is caused be previous generation phones lack of barometric sensors and poor gps reception on some traces. Latest generation phones work better and clear view of sky in carbon ships.

Sorry this thread has been hijacked. Go Sailplane Grand Prix. Go Competitors. Go Sean and Tiffany! Go Soaring!

Lane


--
Dan, 5J
  #30  
Old July 30th 16, 07:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kiwiindenver
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Posts: 50
Default Tracking Using IGCDroid and a Cheap, Pay As You Go Phone

I'm the author of IGCDroid, Lane is mostly right. Certainly very little data is needed, but simply because .IGC files are compact, not because the data is compressed. Both my app and Pedja's iPhone app work the same way. We send an uncompressed .IGC file in fragments.

If you want to get a feel for data usage I suggest you look at some of your personal .IGC files and see how big they are. Add 10%-20% for transmission overhead and you should have a good ballpark figure.
 




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