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#91
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"V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"
Ponce wrote:
redc1c4 wrote: Ponce wrote: La N wrote: "Colin Campbell" (remove underscore) wrote in message ... You said something dumb - then myself and red started making fun of you by - using standardized logistics terminology that you did not understand. Well, Vince, if nothing else, you can bust Colin on very bad grammar ... - nilita he does not know the difference between supply and logistics so the case is closed Vince IOW: "i'm wrong so i need a way to save face...." redc1c4, you're an immodest man, with much to be modest about. %-) keep demonstrating your ignorance Vince even if i were to try, i lack the natural talent you are so eager to display on a regular basis, such as in this thread. lacking your obvious talent, i shall have to restrict showing my ass to 2H6 and the cats, with the occasional late summer night skinny dip thrown in.... redc1c4, amateurs talk about logistics, but professionals have actually dealt with them. -- "Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear considerable watching." Army Officer's Guide |
#92
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"V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"
Ponce wrote:
La N wrote: "Vince" wrote in message . .. Colin Campbell wrote: On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 09:16:35 -0500, Vince wrote: Colin Campbell wrote: On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:28:54 -0800, redc1c4 wrote: i've yet to see you defend your claim that all ammunition resupply in Iraq is transported via air assets. care to cite the message ID where you did that? i certainly provided several definitive cites showing otherwise. The most amusing thing was that the claimed to know how ammunition is moved - but did not even catch on to the term 'Class V.' OFCS You are simply adding to the demonstration of ignorance "Class V" is a question of supply not logistics ROTFL! Thank you for demonstrating that you have no clue. Do you really think that 'classes of supply' and the logistics of moving them are separate issues? "logistics of moving them" simply indicates your total ignorance Logistics is logistics whether you are looking at a roman army or a Prussian one . Transport systems are a tiny fraction of the job. Here is a clue for you (now you can say you have one): The term 'priority of supply' is part of the logistics annex in an Operations Order. Each supply category is given a priority and the highest priorities are the focus of the logistics effort. supply, not logistics Logistics decides what supplies you can or should have Here is another clue for you (now you can claim to have _two_ clues!): Each class of supply has different movement priorities. For example: toilet paper (a Class II item) would not be moved by air because it tends to be a very low priority item. Class III and V are high cube and mass items that are typically moved on the ground. However - air movement is always planned for as a contingency because of its criticality in fighting a battle. Besides - you have still not explained why we should take your uninformed opinion as to the effectiveness of the aircraft over that of the people who actually fly it and maintain it. For the same reason we ignore horse cavalrymen battleship admirals and air force lunatics who thought B-17s could defend themselves I teach the evaluation of expertise and the problem of conflict of interest. Ipse Dixit just doesn't cut it Okay, since now I am interested in military logistics, I decided to look it up myself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistics "In military logistics, logistics officers manage how and when to move resources to the places they are needed. In military science, maintaining one's supply lines while disrupting those of the enemy is a crucial-some would say the most crucial-element of military strategy, since an armed force without resources and transportation is defenseless. "The defeat of the British in the American War of Independence, and the defeat of Erwin Rommel in World War II, have been largely attributed to logistical failure. The historical leaders Hannibal Barca, Alexander the Great and the Duke of Wellington are considered to have been logistical geniuses." And from: http://www.army-technology.com/glossary/logistics.html "Logistics Logistics are the area of military operations dealing with the procurement, distribution, maintenance, and replacement of materiel and personnel." right Buying the V-22 is a logistics decision What you fill it with on a given run is a supply decision Vince no. what goes on the plane, versus what goes via the nonexistent convoys, is part & parcel of logistics. your denial of an essential truth doesn't make it any less so. redc1c4, who's been on more LOGPAC convoys than you've ever read about. -- "Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear considerable watching." Army Officer's Guide |
#93
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"V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"
redc1c4 wrote:
Ponce wrote: redc1c4 wrote: Ponce wrote: La N wrote: "Colin Campbell" (remove underscore) wrote in message ... You said something dumb - then myself and red started making fun of you by - using standardized logistics terminology that you did not understand. Well, Vince, if nothing else, you can bust Colin on very bad grammar ... - nilita he does not know the difference between supply and logistics so the case is closed Vince IOW: "i'm wrong so i need a way to save face...." redc1c4, you're an immodest man, with much to be modest about. %-) keep demonstrating your ignorance Vince even if i were to try, i lack the natural talent you are so eager to display on a regular basis, such as in this thread. lacking your obvious talent, i shall have to restrict showing my ass to 2H6 and the cats, with the occasional late summer night skinny dip thrown in.... redc1c4, amateurs talk about logistics, but professionals have actually dealt with them. your only demonstrated talent is changing headers wow did you learn that in junior high? or grade school? Vince |
#94
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"V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"
redc1c4 wrote:
Ponce wrote: La N wrote: "Vince" wrote in message . .. Colin Campbell wrote: On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 09:16:35 -0500, Vince wrote: Colin Campbell wrote: On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:28:54 -0800, redc1c4 wrote: i've yet to see you defend your claim that all ammunition resupply in Iraq is transported via air assets. care to cite the message ID where you did that? i certainly provided several definitive cites showing otherwise. The most amusing thing was that the claimed to know how ammunition is moved - but did not even catch on to the term 'Class V.' OFCS You are simply adding to the demonstration of ignorance "Class V" is a question of supply not logistics ROTFL! Thank you for demonstrating that you have no clue. Do you really think that 'classes of supply' and the logistics of moving them are separate issues? "logistics of moving them" simply indicates your total ignorance Logistics is logistics whether you are looking at a roman army or a Prussian one . Transport systems are a tiny fraction of the job. Here is a clue for you (now you can say you have one): The term 'priority of supply' is part of the logistics annex in an Operations Order. Each supply category is given a priority and the highest priorities are the focus of the logistics effort. supply, not logistics Logistics decides what supplies you can or should have Here is another clue for you (now you can claim to have _two_ clues!): Each class of supply has different movement priorities. For example: toilet paper (a Class II item) would not be moved by air because it tends to be a very low priority item. Class III and V are high cube and mass items that are typically moved on the ground. However - air movement is always planned for as a contingency because of its criticality in fighting a battle. Besides - you have still not explained why we should take your uninformed opinion as to the effectiveness of the aircraft over that of the people who actually fly it and maintain it. For the same reason we ignore horse cavalrymen battleship admirals and air force lunatics who thought B-17s could defend themselves I teach the evaluation of expertise and the problem of conflict of interest. Ipse Dixit just doesn't cut it Okay, since now I am interested in military logistics, I decided to look it up myself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistics "In military logistics, logistics officers manage how and when to move resources to the places they are needed. In military science, maintaining one's supply lines while disrupting those of the enemy is a crucial-some would say the most crucial-element of military strategy, since an armed force without resources and transportation is defenseless. "The defeat of the British in the American War of Independence, and the defeat of Erwin Rommel in World War II, have been largely attributed to logistical failure. The historical leaders Hannibal Barca, Alexander the Great and the Duke of Wellington are considered to have been logistical geniuses." And from: http://www.army-technology.com/glossary/logistics.html "Logistics Logistics are the area of military operations dealing with the procurement, distribution, maintenance, and replacement of materiel and personnel." right Buying the V-22 is a logistics decision What you fill it with on a given run is a supply decision Vince no. what goes on the plane, versus what goes via the nonexistent convoys, is part & parcel of logistics. your denial of an essential truth doesn't make it any less so. redc1c4, who's been on more LOGPAC convoys than you've ever read about. sorry your experience handling cargo simply does not count that is supply, not logistics, no matter what you want to call it Stevedores handle supply Vince |
#95
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"V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"
Ponce wrote:
redc1c4 wrote: Ponce wrote: La N wrote: "Vince" wrote in message . .. Colin Campbell wrote: On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 09:16:35 -0500, Vince wrote: Colin Campbell wrote: On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:28:54 -0800, redc1c4 wrote: i've yet to see you defend your claim that all ammunition resupply in Iraq is transported via air assets. care to cite the message ID where you did that? i certainly provided several definitive cites showing otherwise. The most amusing thing was that the claimed to know how ammunition is moved - but did not even catch on to the term 'Class V.' OFCS You are simply adding to the demonstration of ignorance "Class V" is a question of supply not logistics ROTFL! Thank you for demonstrating that you have no clue. Do you really think that 'classes of supply' and the logistics of moving them are separate issues? "logistics of moving them" simply indicates your total ignorance Logistics is logistics whether you are looking at a roman army or a Prussian one . Transport systems are a tiny fraction of the job. Here is a clue for you (now you can say you have one): The term 'priority of supply' is part of the logistics annex in an Operations Order. Each supply category is given a priority and the highest priorities are the focus of the logistics effort. supply, not logistics Logistics decides what supplies you can or should have Here is another clue for you (now you can claim to have _two_ clues!): Each class of supply has different movement priorities. For example: toilet paper (a Class II item) would not be moved by air because it tends to be a very low priority item. Class III and V are high cube and mass items that are typically moved on the ground. However - air movement is always planned for as a contingency because of its criticality in fighting a battle. Besides - you have still not explained why we should take your uninformed opinion as to the effectiveness of the aircraft over that of the people who actually fly it and maintain it. For the same reason we ignore horse cavalrymen battleship admirals and air force lunatics who thought B-17s could defend themselves I teach the evaluation of expertise and the problem of conflict of interest. Ipse Dixit just doesn't cut it Okay, since now I am interested in military logistics, I decided to look it up myself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistics "In military logistics, logistics officers manage how and when to move resources to the places they are needed. In military science, maintaining one's supply lines while disrupting those of the enemy is a crucial-some would say the most crucial-element of military strategy, since an armed force without resources and transportation is defenseless. "The defeat of the British in the American War of Independence, and the defeat of Erwin Rommel in World War II, have been largely attributed to logistical failure. The historical leaders Hannibal Barca, Alexander the Great and the Duke of Wellington are considered to have been logistical geniuses." And from: http://www.army-technology.com/glossary/logistics.html "Logistics Logistics are the area of military operations dealing with the procurement, distribution, maintenance, and replacement of materiel and personnel." right Buying the V-22 is a logistics decision What you fill it with on a given run is a supply decision Vince no. what goes on the plane, versus what goes via the nonexistent convoys, is part & parcel of logistics. your denial of an essential truth doesn't make it any less so. redc1c4, who's been on more LOGPAC convoys than you've ever read about. sorry your experience handling cargo simply does not count that is supply, not logistics, no matter what you want to call it Stevedores handle supply Vince and let the military calls it "Logistics"..... for instance: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...2/ai_109667385 and https://www.nm.ngb.army.mil/DCSLOG/L...pply/index.htm what's really amusing to me (besides your willful obtuseness) is that the scenario in the first article clearly has an E-8 in charge, but i, as an E-4, routinely lead these activities for my troop. redc1c4, you were saying? %-) -- "Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear considerable watching." Army Officer's Guide |
#96
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"V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"
In message slsrj.19263$C61.5339@edtnps89, La N
writes Okay, since now I am interested in military logistics, I decided to look it up myself: Two cracking books on the subject, if you're interested: "Supplying War" by Martin van Creveld, and "Lifeblood of War" by Julian Thompson. -- The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. -Thucydides pauldotjdotadam[at]googlemail{dot}.com |
#97
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"V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ... In message slsrj.19263$C61.5339@edtnps89, La N writes Okay, since now I am interested in military logistics, I decided to look it up myself: Two cracking books on the subject, if you're interested: "Supplying War" by Martin van Creveld, and "Lifeblood of War" by Julian Thompson. Heheheh. What would my friends think if they spotted me reading those books on my free time ... - nilita |
#98
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"V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"
redc1c4 wrote:
redc1c4, who's been on more LOGPAC convoys than you've ever read about. sorry your experience handling cargo simply does not count that is supply, not logistics, no matter what you want to call it Stevedores handle supply Vince and let the military calls it "Logistics"..... for instance: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...2/ai_109667385 and https://www.nm.ngb.army.mil/DCSLOG/L...pply/index.htm what's really amusing to me (besides your willful obtuseness) is that the scenario in the first article clearly has an E-8 in charge, but i, as an E-4, routinely lead these activities for my troop. Im sorry you can cal a tail a leg but it doesn't make it so An E-4 does supply, not logistics even in the US military "Part of the Defense Logistics Agency, Logistics Operations (J-3) includes Acquisition, Technical, and Supply (J-33), Business Management and Integration (J-35), Distribution and Reutilization Policy (J-37), Defense Standardization Program Office (J-307), and Internal Review Office (J-308). Logistics Operations is responsible for the worldwide logistics support throughout the Department of Defense. The primary focus of J-3 is to support the warfighter in time of war and peace. J-3 supports the procurement, management, storage and, and distribution of 5.2 million items for U. S. military customers, other federal agencies, and allied forces. To accomplish this mission, DLA utilizes the support of Supply Centers, a Distribution Center, and Service Centers. http://www.supply.dla.mil/ Logistics turns money and other resources into fighting power Supply delivers stuff to the battlefield Its Been that way since the Greeks "The word of logistics originates from the ancient Greek logos (?????), which means “ratio, word, calculation, reason, speech, oration”. Logistics is an idea considered to have transformed from the military's need to supply themselves with arms and ammunition and ration as they moved from their base to a forward position. In ancient Greek, Roman and Byzantine empires, there were military officers with the title ‘Logistikas’ who were responsible for financial and supply distribution matters. The Oxford English dictionary defines logistics as: “The branch of military science having to do with procuring, maintaining and transporting material, personnel and facilities.”Another dictionary definition is: "The time related positioning of resources." As such, logistics is commonly seen as a branch of engineering which creates "people systems" rather than "machine systems"...." Vince |
#99
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"V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"
On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 15:20:27 -0800, redc1c4
wrote: Peter Skelton wrote: On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 16:42:51 GMT, "La N" wrote: "Vince" wrote in message news La N wrote: "Colin Campbell" (remove underscore) wrote in message ... You said something dumb - then myself and red started making fun of you by - using standardized logistics terminology that you did not understand. Well, Vince, if nothing else, you can bust Colin on very bad grammar ... - nilita he does not know the difference between supply and logistics so the case is closed Well, it has been an "interesting" debate between 2 people, each of whom has never been known to admit when they have been wrong ...%) That is not a fair accusation when aimed at Vince. Peter Skelton cite? redc1c4, who's seen Ponce be wrong many times, but who's never seen him admit it. I've never seen you admit it either, and I've sure as hell seen you wrong. (The whole V-22 thing has two wrong sides screaming yes and no about something clearly unproven.) What Vince does, like most posters, is abandons a point where he is clearly incorrect. Pragmatically speaking, it's a good approach. The requested reference is in the material I posted, if you have the wit and expereince to find it. Peter Skelton |
#100
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"V-22 squadron achieves successin Iraq, USMC says"
On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 01:22:32 GMT, "La N"
wrote: "Vince" wrote in message ... Colin Campbell wrote: On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 09:16:35 -0500, Vince wrote: Colin Campbell wrote: On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:28:54 -0800, redc1c4 wrote: i've yet to see you defend your claim that all ammunition resupply in Iraq is transported via air assets. care to cite the message ID where you did that? i certainly provided several definitive cites showing otherwise. The most amusing thing was that the claimed to know how ammunition is moved - but did not even catch on to the term 'Class V.' OFCS You are simply adding to the demonstration of ignorance "Class V" is a question of supply not logistics ROTFL! Thank you for demonstrating that you have no clue. Do you really think that 'classes of supply' and the logistics of moving them are separate issues? "logistics of moving them" simply indicates your total ignorance Logistics is logistics whether you are looking at a roman army or a Prussian one . Transport systems are a tiny fraction of the job. Here is a clue for you (now you can say you have one): The term 'priority of supply' is part of the logistics annex in an Operations Order. Each supply category is given a priority and the highest priorities are the focus of the logistics effort. supply, not logistics Logistics decides what supplies you can or should have Here is another clue for you (now you can claim to have _two_ clues!): Each class of supply has different movement priorities. For example: toilet paper (a Class II item) would not be moved by air because it tends to be a very low priority item. Class III and V are high cube and mass items that are typically moved on the ground. However - air movement is always planned for as a contingency because of its criticality in fighting a battle. Besides - you have still not explained why we should take your uninformed opinion as to the effectiveness of the aircraft over that of the people who actually fly it and maintain it. For the same reason we ignore horse cavalrymen battleship admirals and air force lunatics who thought B-17s could defend themselves I teach the evaluation of expertise and the problem of conflict of interest. Ipse Dixit just doesn't cut it Okay, since now I am interested in military logistics, I decided to look it up myself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logistics "In military logistics, logistics officers manage how and when to move resources to the places they are needed. In military science, maintaining one's supply lines while disrupting those of the enemy is a crucial-some would say the most crucial-element of military strategy, since an armed force without resources and transportation is defenseless. "The defeat of the British in the American War of Independence, and the defeat of Erwin Rommel in World War II, have been largely attributed to logistical failure. The historical leaders Hannibal Barca, Alexander the Great and the Duke of Wellington are considered to have been logistical geniuses." And from: http://www.army-technology.com/glossary/logistics.html "Logistics Logistics are the area of military operations dealing with the procurement, distribution, maintenance, and replacement of materiel and personnel." So supply is a subset of logistics. (This differes from civilian terminology where supply is usually provision, at a defined place and time, of inputs to your logistics system. Your customers look on you as supply.) Peter Skelton |
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