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Training Needed?



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 9th 11, 05:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Marc Ramsey[_3_]
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Posts: 18
Default Training Needed?

At 03:38 09 June 2011, T wrote:
Older glider certificates were issued with "aero tow only" or

"ground/
winch launch only" restrictions. Those were removed in the 90s and the
certificate simply says "glider.


My original license was issued in 1970, it simply says "glider". The
aero tow and ground launch restrictions on the license came much later,
mid-80s I believe. Since I did do some auto tows back then, I was
grandfathered for ground launch, but I considered it very worthwhile to
get training and an endorsement for winch launch 6 or 7 years ago...

Marc


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  #12  
Old June 9th 11, 05:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
SF
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Posts: 214
Default Training Needed?

On Jun 8, 4:45*pm, CF wrote:
I've an unrestricted private glider rating issused before 1994.. I believe
this measns I don't need a self launch endorsement? *What training or
checkrides would I need to pilot a motorgliner like the Phoenix *S-LSAwww.phoenixairusa.com*I'm also an A&P I should be able to no my own
maintenance


You want to be legal or safe?
My recomendation would be to get a self launch endorsement from a CFI
that normally does power instruction who also has a glider rating
(CFIG). It's a power plane with a good glide ratio (that should get
the discussion off track) treat it like one. The time you spend with
the CFI should be fun and relativley cheap compared to the original
purchase price and the repair cost for the plane and yourself.

SF
  #13  
Old June 9th 11, 07:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Burt Compton - Marfa
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Posts: 220
Default Training Needed?

get a self launch endorsement from a CFI
that normally does power instruction who also has a glider rating
(CFIG). *


For the USA. Note that for the CFI with glider category to instruct
in self-launch sailplanes s/he must also have self-launch endorsement
or be "grandfathered" by FAR 61.31(j).
Finding a CFIG who has experience in that make and model self-launch
sailplane is another story, and your insurance underwriters may want
to add requirements.

Rather than debate it, just go get the proper training from a CFIG
with lots of recent experience, not just someone who flew one like
yours once prior to August 4, 1997 and therefore is "grandfathered
in." Be safe and proficient and that will reflect well on the sport
of soaring and perhaps keep the FAA from future twiddling with the
rules.

There are several good CFIG who can give you the training. Look at
the SSA website under "Where to Fly" and the Auxiliary Sailplane
Association (ASA) website for a list of CFIG's who can train you to
fly self-launch sailplanes safely.

I got my self-launch endorsement from "Glider Bob" Saunders
(Telluride. Colorado) in a Stemme. Stephen Dee also teaches in self-
launch (in a Scheibe) and does FAA glider pilot checkrides as a
Designated Pilot Examiner in Memphis, Tennessee. I'm sure others on
this group can recommend a qualified CFIG for your self-launch
endorsement.

Burt
Marfa, Texas USA



  #14  
Old June 9th 11, 09:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andy[_1_]
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Posts: 1,565
Default Training Needed?

On Jun 9, 11:27*am, Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
get a self launch endorsement from a CFI

that normally does power instruction who also has a glider rating
(CFIG). *


For the USA. *Note that for the CFI with glider category to instruct
in self-launch sailplanes s/he must also have self-launch endorsement
or be "grandfathered" by FAR 61.31(j).
Finding a CFIG who has experience in that make and model self-launch
sailplane is another story, and your insurance underwriters may want
to add requirements.

Rather than debate it, just go get the proper training from a CFIG
with lots of recent experience, not just someone who flew one like
yours once prior to August 4, 1997 and therefore is "grandfathered
in." * Be safe and proficient and that will reflect well on the sport
of soaring and perhaps keep the FAA from future twiddling with the
rules.

There are several good CFIG who can give you the training. * Look at
the SSA website under "Where to Fly" and the Auxiliary Sailplane
Association (ASA) website for a list of CFIG's who can train you to
fly self-launch sailplanes safely.

I got my self-launch endorsement from "Glider Bob" Saunders
(Telluride. Colorado) in a Stemme. * Stephen Dee also teaches in self-
launch (in a Scheibe) and does FAA glider pilot checkrides as a
Designated Pilot Examiner in Memphis, Tennessee. * I'm sure others on
this group can recommend a qualified CFIG for your self-launch
endorsement.

Burt
Marfa, Texas * *USA


Agree that's good advice. The situation on the need for additional
training seems to have become confused by the current revision of CFR
14 part 61.

It now says "The holder of a glider rating issued prior to August 4,
1997, is considered to be in compliance with the training and logbook
endorsement requirements of this paragraph for the specific operating
privilege for which the holder is already qualified."

However, it provides no information or requirements relating to how it
is determined that the holder is already qualified.

An earlier version of CFR 14 part 61 had verbiage similar to "has
logged pilot in command time in self launch gliders prior to (date)".
So far I have not found an old part 61 version that contains that
wording, but it was similar to the existing exception clause for tail
wheel aircraft endorsements. (Anyone have that old version handy?)

Given that the specific exception referencing pilot in command time
has been eliminated, how is one to prove that one is already qualified
unless the log book includes an FAA flight test, or instructor
endorsement, which mine does not.

BTW with over 3000 hours in gliders and over 2000 in airplanes I see
no value in doing training in a touring motor glider in preparation
for flying a single seat pylon self launcher. Spending a few hours
with a pilot experienced in the specific self launcher would be far
more valuable.

Andy


 




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