MAYDAY in the Everglades

Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
"Marty from Florida" marty@-x-x-x- remove -x-x- worth.net writes:

[...] I know as a given fact that I will not get hurt in a general
aviation aircraft that I'm flying during daylight hours. It's just
a
fact that comes with a great respect for the unexpected (I have a
healthy fear of what I don't know). [..]

I hate to say this, but all that respect and pre-flight attention is
just not a guarantee that you won't be hurt. There are unfortunately
many ways to get hurt in an airplane, some foreseeable, some
preventable, and some neither. I don't want to scare you by dreaming
up scenario after scenario, but rest assured that they exist.


I've definitely gotta agree with that one. If you know it is a fact
that you won't be hurt in an aircraft that you're flying day VFR, then,
with all due respect, you are deluding yourself. Of course, you
probably won't be convinced of that until it actually happens (been
there, done that, still have the blood soaked T-shirt). A great
respect for the unexpected will not guarantee that the unexpected will
not happen. Not by a long shot.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Mark Hansen wrote:

I guess everyone will have their own personal safety margins, but if
I was unable to come up with a way to safely make the flight, I would
not fly. Perhaps this is simply due to my lack of experience.

I'm not sure what that means. Every flight is an exercise in risk
assesment. Since there are no guarantees that you will ever come up
with a way to "safely make a flight", you'd have to stay on the ground.

The trick is to slant the odds in your favor as much as possible.
Individuals vary in their risk tolerance, so that is a personal
decision. Some people will not fly over any terrain that would not
permit an emergency landing at any time. That's fine for them, but
would seriously limit the utility of an aircraft for most pilots, if
adhered to religiously. In real life, we make trade-offs. A certain
amount of risk, for a certain amount of reward. Where those two
balance are an exercise for the individual.

I rountinely fly my single engine plane in the bottoms of deep
canyons in very mountainous terrain. I know that there are a lot of
places where an engine failure will have a good chance of killing me.
I do everything I can to make sure that I've minimized the risk as much
as possible, but the bottom line is that I'm trading a little safety in
order to enjoy the unique pleasure of flying the backcountry. Lest
you think I'm some kind of daredevil, there are several hundreds of
other pilots that have made similar choices. I'll be the first one to
say that, although I enjoy it immensly, it's not for everybody.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

On Wed, 04 May 2005 12:13:10 -0500, Montblack wrote:

I was surprised that the OP turned around to make an airport he didn't think
he could make - if the rough running engine quit. I mean ....GATORS!!!

Have to admit that was my impression too. He had a plan that would work,
and traded it (at ATC's suggestion) for one he hoped would work - if all
went well, and the engine didn't get any worse.

Don't know that I would have done the same thing.

George Patterson wrote:
Marty from Florida wrote:

I didn't touch the mags for concern I'd kill the engine.

I agree with you completely. Switching to one mag would help only in
a situation
in which a mag has jumped time. Your description of the symptoms
doesn't match
what happens when a mag's mistimed (backfiring usually comes into the
picture in
this case). I would not have touched the ignition switch.

I've had instances of mag failure where switching to one improved the
situation quite a bit. One was a bad timing gear that did include the
backfiring, but another was a shorting distributer block that made the
engine extremely rough and caused a power loss. In that case, I
switched to the good mag and had a much less worriesome ride home.

I guess I don't completely understand your (or Marty's) reluctance to
at least check the mags in flight. Even at best glide, the engine is
not going to come to a stop because you grounded a mag. If it gets
worse, you just switch back, then try the other one. At some point,
you decide which combo (left, right, or both) works best and you leave
it there.

Maybe there is something I haven't considered. If so, I would
welcome enlightenment.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

wrote:

I guess I don't completely understand your (or Marty's) reluctance to
at least check the mags in flight.

On a Lycoming, each mag controls half the plugs on the top and half on the
bottom. There are a variety of problems that will lead to fouling of the lower
plugs. If I start switching mags on an iced up engine, there's a good chance it
will die. There's also a pretty good chance that it won't restart when I switch
back to both. Especially on a carburetted engine, you run a big risk of flooding
the engine while it's windmilling. As long as the engine's running, I won't take
a chance on switching mags. It's just something I'm not prepared to do.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

You should show this story in RAS. I think it is a good story for student
pilots to hear.

Toks Desalu
PP-ASEL
"Dyin' to soar"

"Marty from Sunny Florida" wrote in message
...
Hello everyone.



The end of my story is this; We landed safely in the middle of the Florida
Everglades and didn't get a single Alligator bite. Here's what happened;



On Friday, April 29th, we took our Cessna 152 from Lantana, Florida to the
center of the State for gas and start our trek south to Key West. The
total
journey is a little over 2 hours.



Forty five minutes after filling with gas in Pahokee, we were just below
Alligator Alley (highway 75). Our engine hiccupped. A few minutes later,
it
hiccupped again, this time losing a couple of hundred RPM. We were at
6,800
feet, strait and level flight running at 75% power (about 2350 RPM). The
mixture had been leaned back about 30 minutes earlier, and none of the
engine instruments had changed from the time we made our cruise altitude.



As the hiccups got closer together engine power dropped off significantly,
grabbing our total attention. My first move was pulling up on the yoke to
maintain altitude. I trimmed to our plane's best glide of 60 kts When the
sputtering became a constant rough drone, the engine still held some
power,
and we could see nothing but marsh. I though about the choice between
ditching in green or brown muck, not sure where the biggest alligators
live.
There was absolutely no solid ground as far as the eye could see.
Solemnly,
I rolled the 'standby' frequency to 121.5 acknowledging the severity of
our
predicament.

Acting on the premise that the engine could quit at any moment and our
best
option was behind us on highway I75, I started a very gentle 180 degree
turn.



Oil pressure was in the green. Oil temp was in the green. Mags were on
BOTH.
The fuel showed close to full (I had at least 18 gallons useable). My only
immediate change was to push the mixture to full rich, which had no
effect.
When I touched the throttle to add power, the RPM dropped. Gently, I
returned the throttle and the power evened out.



The sky was clear, and when I got my pre-flight briefing, the temp was 26
and dew point 16. It was unseasonably cool and very dry for Florida. At
altitude, I knew the air had almost no moisture, but on the way up, we did
have a typical hazy layer. My next move was carb heat, even though there
was
absolutely no visible moisture. It did smooth out the roughness slightly,
but did nothing for the power loss.



The engine was dying, and the math was simple. Sink at 500 fpt, 6,800 feet
gives me about 13 minutes and at 60 kts, I'd get about 15 statute miles. I
knew I could make the highway without an engine.



I've personally had experience looking for downed aircraft in the Florida
swamp, and know how difficult it is to spot a small plane. We needed to
let
someone know our position and situation. We had the skill to find the
closest airport but every moment was precious. ATC could save valuable
minutes and that might make the difference. With this in mind, I hit the
radio's flip-flop button and announced our tail number on the emergency
frequency.



The Controller was a true professional. He asked me a few questions and
instructed me to "ident" before assigning a squawk code. The radio
reception
was not clear, which generated a stream of "say agains". This, of course
added to the general stress of the situation.



Efficiently, he ascertained our position and vectored me to the
Dade-Collier
airport, which is in the middle of nowhere. Ironically, so were we! The
strip was 17 miles to our southwest, which is farther than a dead engine
would take me. We had been heading due north to a safe landing point on
I75
when ATC advised us to turn our backs on the hwy and return south. In my
heart, we turned away from solid ground to face only swamp again. I
decided
to trust fate and the ATC controller as I asked the alligators to gift me
the extra minutes of engine power needed to make the airport.



Trimmed back to slow flight, we managed to barely maintain altitude. We
arrived at the 10,500 foot runway with 3,200 feet of altitude and 120 kts
of
air speed. I figure I could have made 4 complete turns around the pattern
and still land hot. I have never been so relieved in my entire life.



On the ground, we taxied to an area near two other planes. Relieved and
curious I did a runup and the engine gave a text book performance.



Our cell phones didn't work so we called the FBO on the radio. We were
invited into the small building nearby where there was a phone. There we
learned that the other two planes had landed the day before with similar
symptoms.



I phoned my mechanic and relayed the story. He gave me some great advice
and
a definite suggestion about what caused the problem. We returned to the
plane to follow my mechanics instructions.



Another mechanic, who had come to pick up one of the other downed planes
kindly offered to look at my engine. He pulled the cowl open, checked the
cables on the throttle, carb heat and mixture. He sat in the 152 with me
while I did a regular and then full-power run up. The engine showed great
response to throttle, the mixture choked it and the carb heat performed as
advertised.



This qualified mechanic was planning to fly out in a plane that landed in
the same condition as ours. They offered us a ride if we were not
comfortable flying our 152. We had options. Now, we had to make a decision
to take the ride or hop in our plane and head out.



The logic was: someone at some point would fly our 152 out, and we would
again need to fly this same plane at some point ourselves. If we waited,
what would be different? A qualified mechanic not only said it was safe,
but
was flying out a plane in the same condition. We decided the problem had
resolved itself. We would fly.



After a lengthy check, we headed for the runway. I did a steep climb over
the field, continued uphill after completing a long, slow circuit of the
airport, and headed north with a 500 FPM climb. All the while, I knew I
could glide back to the runway if needed.



It was late to start our day in the Keys so we turned towards home. When
We
sighted I75, I knew I was home free. If there was trouble we were
guaranteed
a level spot to land. We made Lantana at full power with no sign of the
earlier problem.



I must say, I am impressed with the FAA system and the people who dedicate
their careers to the safety of our skies. This system that trains and
relies
on the good judgment of the individual pilot also supports the decisions
necessary in crisis. While part of the mandate of the FAA is to enforce
the
laws, a pilot's decisions are respected even when they are examined. I
find
great comfort in the FAA and the service it provides to general aviation.



If our highways resembled our skies, perhaps the average driver would be
less likely to knowingly break the law.



Here's my question to this group. What caused the engine failure? More
than
one thought is welcome, but please explain your answer. I have one of two
possibilities in my head, and invite any questions, advise, opinions, or
wisdom.



Warm regards from one very happy pilot.



Marty

I sometimes check mags at cruise power in the air - but only over flat
country. I also occasionally check them at idle on the ground to keep
track of the condition of the points.

One caveat is if you get a rough engine that is fixed by going to one
mag, don't experiment with the BOTH position again. One fellow I knew
did that on a 182 and had an exposion in the intake manifold that blew
off some of the intake system hoses. The integrity of the intake
system is critical to maintaining a semblance of the correct mixture
and the open port(s) made things so lean he couldn't recover power.

The range of spark ignitable mixture is less than three to one air/fuel
ratio (from about 8:1 to maybe 20:1 by weight).

Good point Scott



I think that everyone here is pretty much in agreement that carb ice
is suspect numero uno here. But there is something that I teach my
students to do is immediately pull the carb heat (and leave it on)
while you are setting up for best glide and looking for a suitable
landing site. It takes a tenth of a second to reach and pull that
knob. The longer you wait to do this, the cooler the engine is
getting and carb heat becomes less effective. Then after you have
obtained best glide and you are heading for your landing site, then go
through the troubleshooting and preparing for an emergency landing.

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

I guess I was overly fixated (on the very real possibility) of the OP being
grabbed, rolled, then stuffed under a submerged log by a giant 30 ft long
alligator. Chomp, chomp, chomp.

Nah - those cuddly little guys?
Didn'y ya ever watch Croc Hunter of Croc Dundee?
Ain't those 'gators even more cuddly?


We got bears.
Grizzlies, brown, black, Kodiak, and - for a real thrill - Polar.
We're what is known in aviation circles as carb-heat obsessive
compulsive

Didya ever see a musk-ox in mating season?
More carb heat - More carb heat . . . .

Tony


--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

"nrp" writes:

Did you try aggressively leaning while having full carb heat? Possibly
your engine was flooding out from an iced carb venturi. You mentioned
going to full rich, but if it is an icing situation, it may instead
require further leaning ....


I was going to ask about that. A lean engine runs hotter than a rich
one. But that's mostly EGT, and I'm not sure it will work back
enough to alter the carb temp. What say you folks?

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433