Another first glider query.

All my training in a G103. Looking for a decent glass ship under $20k. Looking seriously at 15b or Jantar Std 2 or Standard 41a. Any big differences between the Jantar choices? I get that the 15b will likely climb better in weak lift but the Jantars will dust the 15b when XC. I am 6'1" and have long arms, so a Jantar should not be a problem for me. I know I can't go wrong with the 15b but there is the gelcoat issue... and if I want to get into XC any time soon the Jantar will do better. Comes down to condition of plane and trailer for what can be purchased under $20k. So an opinion about any and all of the planes mentioned would be good with emphasis on the performance difference regarding the Jantar 41a (Standard) and 48-1 (Standard 2). THANKS

The glider with the best trailer wins!
John

On Jan 8, 10:20*pm, Timinnc
wrote:
All my training in a G103. Looking for a decent glass ship under $20k.
Looking seriously at 15b or Jantar Std 2 or Standard 41a. Any big
differences between the Jantar choices? I get that the 15b will likely
climb better in weak lift but the Jantars will dust the 15b when XC. I
am 6'1" and have long arms, so a Jantar should not be a problem for me.
I know I can't go wrong with the 15b but there is the gelcoat issue...
and if I want to get into XC any time soon the Jantar will do better.
Comes down to condition of plane and trailer for what can be purchased
under $20k. So an opinion about any and all of the planes mentioned
would be good with emphasis on the performance difference regarding the
Jantar 41a (Standard) and 48-1 (Standard 2). THANKS

--
Timinnc

Never flew the -2 but it was reputed to have better performance than
the original Jantar Std. The (original) Jantar Std was my first
glass ship (leased not owned) and I did all my Gold and Diamond
flights in it. I didn't realize how much of a dog it was until I
bought my ASW-19b! Of course had I not had the opportunity of the
very low cost lease I may never have got into XC and contest flying.
Any glider is better than no glider and I learned a lot in it.

BTW the trailer on that glider sucked but it had no influence on how
often I flew, or where I went. I didn't know any better.

Andy (GY)

On Jan 9, 5:37*pm, Andy wrote:
On Jan 8, 10:20*pm, Timinnc
wrote:

All my training in a G103. Looking for a decent glass ship under $20k.
Looking seriously at 15b or Jantar Std 2 or Standard 41a. Any big
differences between the Jantar choices? I get that the 15b will likely
climb better in weak lift but the Jantars will dust the 15b when XC. I
am 6'1" and have long arms, so a Jantar should not be a problem for me.
I know I can't go wrong with the 15b but there is the gelcoat issue...
and if I want to get into XC any time soon the Jantar will do better.
Comes down to condition of plane and trailer for what can be purchased
under $20k. So an opinion about any and all of the planes mentioned
would be good with emphasis on the performance difference regarding the
Jantar 41a (Standard) and 48-1 (Standard 2). THANKS

--
Timinnc

Never flew the -2 but it was reputed to have better performance than
the original Jantar Std. * The (original) Jantar Std was my first
glass ship (leased not owned) and I did all my Gold and Diamond
flights in it. *I didn't realize how much of a dog it was until I
bought my ASW-19b! *Of course had I not had the opportunity of the
very low cost lease I may never have got into XC and contest flying.
Any glider is better than no glider and I learned a lot in it.

BTW the trailer on that glider sucked but it had no influence on how
often I flew, or where I went. *I didn't know any better.

Andy (GY)

There are those who will say that "serious" and "Jantar" shouldn't be
in the same sentence! However, my first ship was a Jantar (the 19m
Jantar-1), which has about the same fuselage as the 15m ships, if I'm
not mistaken. It flew pretty well and I had some great cross-country
flights while I owned it. Some caveats -the wings are heavy and take
some skill to rig. The cockpit is quite roomy, but the ergonomics are
not on par with the latest designs. Older Jantars have experienced
some play in control linkages, so make sure you have access to spares
(some of them were odd sizes).

The biggest problem I had was an absolutely crappy home- made trailer
(basically a cardboard box on wheels). I can't emphasize enough how
much a good trailer is worth!

Mike

Originally Posted by Andy[_1_]

On Jan 8, 10:20*pm, Timinnc
wrote:
All my training in a G103. Looking for a decent glass ship under $20k.
Looking seriously at 15b or Jantar Std 2 or Standard 41a. Any big
differences between the Jantar choices? I get that the 15b will likely
climb better in weak lift but the Jantars will dust the 15b when XC. I
am 6'1" and have long arms, so a Jantar should not be a problem for me.
I know I can't go wrong with the 15b but there is the gelcoat issue...
and if I want to get into XC any time soon the Jantar will do better.
Comes down to condition of plane and trailer for what can be purchased
under $20k. So an opinion about any and all of the planes mentioned
would be good with emphasis on the performance difference regarding the
Jantar 41a (Standard) and 48-1 (Standard 2). THANKS

--
Timinnc

Never flew the -2 but it was reputed to have better performance than
the original Jantar Std. The (original) Jantar Std was my first
glass ship (leased not owned) and I did all my Gold and Diamond
flights in it. I didn't realize how much of a dog it was until I
bought my ASW-19b! Of course had I not had the opportunity of the
very low cost lease I may never have got into XC and contest flying.
Any glider is better than no glider and I learned a lot in it.

BTW the trailer on that glider sucked but it had no influence on how
often I flew, or where I went. I didn't know any better.

Andy (GY)

Thanks Andy, but I love dogs... I have 5!..... and I have been told that the Jantar Std 2 is quite comparable to a 19 and some even like it better.... but can you qualify what makes a Std (41a) a dog? And it might be said that an ASW 15 is a dog compared to a 19..... But this is my first glider and another way to ask my original question is if everything is equal with regards to trailer, finish, instruments, etc. and the price the same.... would you choose a Jantar 41 over a 15b? And part two of the question still stands.... is there quite a bit of difference between a 41a and 48-1 (std 2).... But thanks for the input.

The trailer is a critical thing to look at. Fitting in the glider will
also be critical. Flying wise, the German ships will be lighter and
more harmonious on the controls. The Jantar 2 is a good runner and
honest to fly. The controls are a little heavy but not bad. With some
fine tuning the cockpit can be one of the most comfortable of all
gliders. Rear visibility in the Jantar is very good. A Jantar 2 won 4
of 9 days at the US Sports Nationals last year and had many 15 m ships
following it around on course. It runs well in the 75 to 80 knot
range.

On Jan 9, 10:33*pm, Timinnc
wrote:
'Andy[_1_ Wrote:





;759645']On Jan 8, 10:20*pm, Timinnc
wrote:-
All my training in a G103. Looking for a decent glass ship under $20k.
Looking seriously at 15b or Jantar Std 2 or Standard 41a. Any big
differences between the Jantar choices? I get that the 15b will likely
climb better in weak lift but the Jantars will dust the 15b when XC. I
am 6'1" and have long arms, so a Jantar should not be a problem for
me.
I know I can't go wrong with the 15b but there is the gelcoat issue...
and if I want to get into XC any time soon the Jantar will do better.
Comes down to condition of plane and trailer for what can be purchased
under $20k. So an opinion about any and all of the planes mentioned
would be good with emphasis on the performance difference regarding
the
Jantar 41a (Standard) and 48-1 (Standard 2). THANKS

--
Timinnc-

Never flew the -2 but it was reputed to have better performance than
the original Jantar Std. * The (original) Jantar Std was my first
glass ship (leased not owned) and I did all my Gold and Diamond
flights in it. *I didn't realize how much of a dog it was until I
bought my ASW-19b! *Of course had I not had the opportunity of the
very low cost lease I may never have got into XC and contest flying.
Any glider is better than no glider and I learned a lot in it.

BTW the trailer on that glider sucked but it had no influence on how
often I flew, or where I went. *I didn't know any better.

Andy (GY)

Thanks Andy, but I love dogs... I have 5!..... and I have been told that
the Jantar Std 2 is quite comparable to a 19 and some even like it
better.... but can you qualify what makes a Std (41a) a dog? And it
might be said that an ASW 15 is a dog compared to a 19..... But this is
my first glider and another way to ask my original question is if
everything is equal with regards to trailer, finish, instruments, etc.
and the price the same.... would you choose a Jantar 41 over a 15b? And
part two of the question still stands.... is there quite a bit of
difference between a 41a and 48-1 (std 2).... But thanks for the input.

--


One Other point - the early Jantars had a two- piece canopy that
wasn't too convenient, but later ones had a single
front hinged canopy. We have one in the Tucson club that is flown
cross- country pretty often. With a bit if water ballast in, it has
proved to be quite capable. The Jantars are renowned for being
strongly built- the main wheel looks like it came from a tractor,

Mike

On Jan 9, 1:33*pm, Timinnc wrote:
'Andy[_1_ Wrote:



;759645']On Jan 8, 10:20*pm, Timinnc
wrote:-
All my training in a G103. Looking for a decent glass ship under $20k.
Looking seriously at 15b or Jantar Std 2 or Standard 41a. Any big
differences between the Jantar choices? I get that the 15b will likely
climb better in weak lift but the Jantars will dust the 15b when XC. I
am 6'1" and have long arms, so a Jantar should not be a problem for
me.
I know I can't go wrong with the 15b but there is the gelcoat issue...
and if I want to get into XC any time soon the Jantar will do better.
Comes down to condition of plane and trailer for what can be purchased
under $20k. So an opinion about any and all of the planes mentioned
would be good with emphasis on the performance difference regarding
the
Jantar 41a (Standard) and 48-1 (Standard 2). THANKS

--
Timinnc-

Never flew the -2 but it was reputed to have better performance than
the original Jantar Std. * The (original) Jantar Std was my first
glass ship (leased not owned) and I did all my Gold and Diamond
flights in it. *I didn't realize how much of a dog it was until I
bought my ASW-19b! *Of course had I not had the opportunity of the
very low cost lease I may never have got into XC and contest flying.
Any glider is better than no glider and I learned a lot in it.

BTW the trailer on that glider sucked but it had no influence on how
often I flew, or where I went. *I didn't know any better.

Andy (GY)

Thanks Andy, but I love dogs... I have 5!..... and I have been told that
the Jantar Std 2 is quite comparable to a 19 and some even like it
better.... but can you qualify what makes a Std (41a) a dog? And it
might be said that an ASW 15 is a dog compared to a 19..... But this is
my first glider and another way to ask my original question is if
everything is equal with regards to trailer, finish, instruments, etc.
and the price the same.... would you choose a Jantar 41 over a 15b? And
part two of the question still stands.... is there quite a bit of
difference between a 41a and 48-1 (std 2).... But thanks for the input.

--
Timinnc

41a has very heavy roll forces. Expect your right arm to bulk up
nicely or always ache. It also carries an open class fuselage around
on 15m wings. The canopy is two piece, not hinged, and heavy. It's a
handful (and more) to remove solo to exit the glider in a strong
wind. For someone with a long torso the seating position has to be
very reclined which will be uncomfortable for some.

As Mike says it's built strong. The gear design has carried over to
many of the later SZD gliders. It has a rather strange disk brake
which doesn't seem to work very well.

Despite all this I flew 350 hours in one and enjoyed nearly all of
them. As I said I didn't know any better.

I have never flown a 15 or the Std-2 so cannot offer an informed
opinion on those. At the time I was flying the 41a a club member
bought a new Std-2 and he certainly thought the performance was
better.

The 41a is a truck and the 19b a sports car. That was the impression
I got when moving from one to the other. If you can find someone to
compare the feel of the ASW-15 to that of the ASW-19 you may have a
useful data point.

Andy

The 41a is lighter that the 48 and is reputed to climb better in weak
lift. If you're fortunate enough to fly in conditions meriting water
ballast, then the 48 would of course be preferable. The 41a only
seems like a truck if you've been spoiled; it's a good honest ship
with no significant handling vices.

Originally Posted by Liam

The 41a is lighter that the 48 and is reputed to climb better in weak
lift. If you're fortunate enough to fly in conditions meriting water
ballast, then the 48 would of course be preferable. The 41a only
seems like a truck if you've been spoiled; it's a good honest ship
with no significant handling vices.

Thanks y'all...