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Scholars for 9/11 Truth -- HTTP://ST911.ORG -- REPLY IN THIS THREAD ONLY FOR THE MORON
In article ,
TRUTH wrote: There are too many posts in to many threads to keep up. I will now only follow this thread. Hell, you couldn't follow the arguments in the *first* thread you started. |
#2
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Scholars for 9/11 Truth -- HTTP://ST911.ORG -- REPLY IN THIS THREAD ONLY FOR THE MORON
These are the best links for Pentagon information:
http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/background.html (Click on the links next to the word "background" at the top) http://911review.com/attack/pentagon/index.html I had originally recommended this site: http://www.oilempire.us/bogus.html however... the OilEmpire site believes it bad to promote theories that could be debunked, (although many don't believe in their debunking methods), therefore OilEmpire concentrates more on the hard-core evidence. Either way, OilEmpire does not believe that Hani Hanjour flew flight 77 into the Pentagon. Look at the information and come to your own conclusion. People have a hard time understanding 9/11 because of cognitive dissonance. Fortunately people are waking up. I have given enough information and links over the past week for those intererested to look into it deeper. (Note also that each link I gave has links to other sites as well.) Here's a few excellent sites: http://www.911blogger.com http://www.question911.com/links.php http://www.911busters.com http://www.911truthseekers.org http://www.cooperativeresearch.org http://www.standdown.net http://3c.911truth.org http://www.reopen911.org http://st911.org Note that Physics Professor Steven Jones' WTC controlled demolition paper is now up to draft version 5.1. With the popularity of this paper, more and more evidence and scientifically accurate reasoning is being added all the time. In addition, this peer reviewed paper is schuduled for publication in "The Hidden History of 9-11-2001" http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html Remember, there are many unknowns about 9/11. Not everyone will be in complete agreement about every single detail. Use your intelligence and figure out what makes sense to you. I am done in these groups. Feel free to continue your airplane discussions |
#3
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Scholars for 9/11 Truth -- HTTP://ST911.ORG -- REPLY IN THISTHREAD ONLY FOR THE MORON
TRUTH wrote:
These are the best links for Pentagon information: http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/background.html (Click on the links next to the word "background" at the top) http://911review.com/attack/pentagon/index.html I had originally recommended this site: http://www.oilempire.us/bogus.html however... the OilEmpire site believes it bad to promote theories that could be debunked, (although many don't believe in their debunking methods), therefore OilEmpire concentrates more on the hard-core evidence. Either way, OilEmpire does not believe that Hani Hanjour flew flight 77 into the Pentagon. Look at the information and come to your own conclusion. People have a hard time understanding 9/11 because of cognitive dissonance. Fortunately people are waking up. I have given enough information and links over the past week for those intererested to look into it deeper. (Note also that each link I gave has links to other sites as well.) Here's a few excellent sites: http://www.911blogger.com http://www.question911.com/links.php http://www.911busters.com http://www.911truthseekers.org http://www.cooperativeresearch.org http://www.standdown.net http://3c.911truth.org http://www.reopen911.org http://st911.org Note that Physics Professor Steven Jones' WTC controlled demolition paper is now up to draft version 5.1. With the popularity of this paper, more and more evidence and scientifically accurate reasoning is being added all the time. In addition, this peer reviewed paper is schuduled for publication in "The Hidden History of 9-11-2001" http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html Remember, there are many unknowns about 9/11. Not everyone will be in complete agreement about every single detail. Use your intelligence and figure out what makes sense to you. I am done in these groups. Feel free to continue your airplane discussions I applaud your decision to admit you were wrong all along. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#4
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Scholars for 9/11 Truth -- HTTP://ST911.ORG -- REPLY IN THIS THREADONLY FOR THE MORON
TRUTH wrote: I am done in these groups. Feel free to continue your airplane discussions Promises, promises. Are you really going this time? |
#5
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Scholars for 9/11 Truth -- HTTP://ST911.ORG -- REPLY IN THISTHREAD ONLY FOR THE MORON
TRUTH wrote:
These are the best links for Pentagon information: http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/background.html (Click on the links next to the word "background" at the top) This describes the Pentagon background and has nothing to do with the attack http://911review.com/attack/pentagon/index.html A lot of supposition on this site. Wow, believe it or not, a former military pilot was in control (what are the odds that military fighter pilots end up on an airline): "The pilot of Flight 77 was Chic Burlingame, a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy who flew F-4s for the U.S. Navy in Vietnam. According to Col. Donn de Grand Pr‚, would-be hijackers had no chance of seizing control of the plane from this experienced veteran. Such a pilot could have easily disabled any would-be hijackers by simply rolling the plane" Various reports have indicated the vulnerability of a seated and strapped in pilot. "Simply rolling the plane"? How often is this done in the 757 simulator? I had originally recommended this site: http://www.oilempire.us/bogus.html however... the OilEmpire site believes it bad to promote theories that could be debunked, That isn't what that page says, does it? It actually says these stupid theories are made up to make the truth people look bad. Are you in this group? It also states, regarding the "truth people": "a few appear to be promoting nonsense deliberately." People have a hard time understanding 9/11 because of cognitive dissonance. Fortunately people are waking up. I have given enough information and links over the past week for those intererested to look into it deeper. Have you actually read these websites? |
#6
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Giving the ****ant troll a parting shot as he runs away
A piisant troll by the handle of "TRUTH" wrote:
I have given enough information and links over the past week for those intererested to look into it deeper. One really doesn't have to look all that "deeply" to determine just how much of a kook Jones is. For example: Claim 1 - "Molten Metal, Flowing and in Pools" Jone's effective claim was that this could have only happened with a mass of Thermite being smuggled in, since the cutter charges wouldn't have produced the amount of observed heated steel, and the dark smoke from the conventional fire allegedly could not have produced temperatures in excess of 650C. Assume Jone's claim is correct that it was indeed a conspiracy and try to actually impliment his claimed mechanism: what do we learn by doing so? First, I've previously detailed out the amount of Thermite required; I won't repeat it. At the aforementioned parametric minimum, a total of 2,500 cubic feet of thermite was required *per floor*. The parametric upper limit is 4x greater...10,000 ft^3 per floor, per building. That's in cubic feet. How much does it weigh? Thermite weighs around 4g/cc, which is 4x the density of water, which would mean that a cubic foot would be 4x 62.4 lbs = ~250lbs. This means that the conspirators needed to smuggle in over 300 TONS per floor. (at the estimated upper limit, it is roughly 1,200 TONS required *per floor*) Okay, so how could they have transported in this much material? Since there was no obvious major heavy construction from 1993-2001, smuggling in of large quantities would have been highly difficult: the above mass works out to 40 pallets worth of materials...again per floor, per building...and each pallet would weigh 8 tons...can't move that by hand, so we're really probably looking at ~650 pallets at 1000lbs each. Plus, we would then have to break down and covertly dispurse each pallet within each floor - - - since at the cube factor of a pallet, you're talking about occupying the floor space equivalent of over 10,000 office cubicles between the two buildings, you can't just try hide it in the photocopier room. 650 pallets per floor, times 110 floors = 71,500 deliveries per building. If you choose to reduce the risk of getting caught breaking down a pallet-sized delivery to the floor, the alternative is to make it the sum accumulation of many hand-carried packages, and the first thing to consider is the upper practical limit to hand carry in on a frequent (daily) basis. A "backpack" sized package which would have to weigh in round numbers no more than 20lbs (a "briefcase" size would have to be half of this). This means that at the parametric minimum 300tons/floor of thermite, at least 30,000 trips *per floor* to smuggle in the material would be required. Assuming one trip per courier per day (as in a normal worker coming to work, to provide a plausible cover story) and a generic weekday job (5 days/week), this would result in roughly 200 work days per year, and thus, 200 transports per year. This means that it would take one volunteer 30,000 trips / 200 trips/year = 150 *years* to covertly transport the materials in ...again, **per floor**. Since taking 150 years to do the job is an impossibility, we would have to try to compress the timeline by using more couriers. The minimized staffing comes with a maximum available timeline: assume that they started on creating such a plan immediately after the first bombing (Feb '93) and had it fully implemented by 18 months later (Fall '94): this gives a "nice round number" of seven (7) years available to transport materials, which - - straight math - - would nevertheless still require at least 20 couriers (and 80 couriers at the upper estimated quantity of required thermite) ... until we remember that this manpower requirement is still on a "per floor" basis: We now multiply by 110 floors and 2 buildings, so we're talking about needing an absolute minimum of 18,500 conspirators (and 18,500 at the upper limit) who combined will have to conduct 6.4 million (to 26 million) successful covert material smugglings without any of them ever getting caught to tip off the authorities that anything's going on. Even if there was only a random "1 in a million" chance of pure dumb luck of any individual transport from getting however randomly caught, the vast number of required sorties means that odds of at least one of them being detected are over 85%. In other words, this plan would have had at least an 85% probability of failure, simply because of its required scale. And if we go back to the far more detectable 1000lb pallet delivery, 71,500 of these in 7 years workd out to just over 40 deliveries per day...assuming a 12 hour day and 5 business days per week, that's one shipment passing in front of security every 18 minutes that's subject to inspection. Start reviewing security tapes, and YMMV as to how many Port Authority guards had to be "in" on this conspiracy just to make this part have a chance of working. Material Cost: Aluminum (not Aluminum Oxide) powder is slightly over $10 per pound. While the Iron Oxide is generally less expensive, thermite is hard to ignite, so several hundred #8 blasting caps are necessary; assume a simple cost offset. At the minimum required mass (300T/floor), times 110 floors, times 2 buildings, the basic materials cost is $1.32 **billion** dollars, plus whatever premium comes about from trying to buy such a vast quantity covertly. UN Security Council Resolution 1373 obligated nations to freeze the assets of terrorists and to prohibit anyone in the country from providing financial or other material assistance to terrorists or their supporters. 166 countries have only found $121 million to freeze. Conclusion: It was pragmatically impossible to have successfully performed the required smuggling tasks while remaining 100% covert across a likely 10 million 'sorties', and also pragmatically impossible to have financed since the cost of just this one item is 10x the total demonstrated financial resources. In plain english, the Thermite Premise is too hard and too expensive. -hh |
#7
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Giving the ****ant troll a parting shot as he runs away
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