Soaring and Critical Mass of Participation.

Fred,

I agree completely since I worked hard to become an instructor too.
And I wnat new instructors to have the same type of training. And
I want them to meet the same standards I met.

What I don't want is barriers to new instructors that have NOTHING
to do with meeting that standard. Having to schedule months out for
a DPE test, not having a DPE within 200 miles to give the test,
having no idea what the weather or glider or towplane or topilot
or own medical capability will be several months away all are barriers
that have nothing to do with maintaining the standards.

Let me give you an example of "barriers." I recently wanted to
get checked out as an instructor in the back seat of a G103 at
a local club. I called the regular instructor, and she mentioned she
was having an unexpected adverse reaction to a medication and couldn't
fly. I called the club, and the towplane was in annual, which may
be completed that day. But even if it was, the other instructor
was going to be busy training a new towpilot, since two towpilots
had recently quit.

Imagine if I had scheduled several weeks out for a practical test.
No towplane, no towpilot, and no examiner. And a delayed practical test.
How does this improve the standards or training of the student?

Now a contrast. I had me, a second instructor, a towplane, pilot,
student, good weather, and freshly annualled 2-33 just coincidentally at
the gliderport. We happened to have an 8710-11 and a FAR/AIM handy.

The student was an ASEL pilot transitioning to gliders, and
had soloed the 2-33. The other CFIG did a few more flights with him,
signed him off for a "Sport Pilot proficiency check for glider"
and then I flew with him. His flights were flawless, and he met
every standard in the Sport Pilot PTS close enough that I couldn't
see a single mistake.

What would have been gained by having him pay $250 instead?
And scheduling 2-8 weeks out? Nothing. Just hassles, breakdowns,
and barriers to entry.

Instead he's happy, we're happy, and since he is a college professor,
we're trying to convince him to become a CFIG. He's so amped
up on the VALUE he has gotten, he is looking to become more active in our
club.

Fred, I think there are many, many barriers in our sport that
do nothing to improve or even maintain safety or standards.
The perhaps 50 to 1 ratio of instructors to examiners is one barrier.

Other barriers include not enough instructors, or perfectly safe and
flyable aircraft that are out of annual waiting for an IA.

Sport Pilot allows a reduction in barriers, with what I percieve
as NO reduction in standards. And Light Sport Aircraft allows a
reduction in barriers to maintenance, again with what I consider no
reduction in standards or safety.

Morris Yoder has been building dozens of powered parachutes for
customers for over a decade. Now the FAA wants him to take the A&P
written and practical tests so he can become a DAR. Morris asked me
why the FAA wants him to study how to reskin aluminum wings,
or study turbines, to work on powered parachutes?

Barriers to entry. No added safety. No added skill. Pure and
simple just some blanket requirement. The Man, getting you down.

I told Morris to just keep making the FAA inspector come out, time and
time again, and look blankly at the vehicle he knows little about,
and look to Morris every so often to see if he nods yes or no.

After a few months of this pointless exercise, the FAA will
issue a special letter of authorization so Morris can be a DAR,
and common-sense will once again reign...

Fred, I suggest that making something harder to do doesn't
necessarily mean the standards are higher. Sometimes it's just a barrier...

In article et,
f.blair wrote:
I don't think that the current procedures and regs should be viewed as a
"barrier" for new instructors. I worked very hard to become an Instructor
and want new Instructors to have the same type of training. Even with all
my work and continual studying, I still know that there are things that I
can improve on.

Lessening the requirements would only lead to bad training and more
accidents. The goal is not to have more people in the air, but more well
trained people in the air.

Fred Blair

same as soaring. The difference is that they hand out
"Basic Flight Instructor" certifications much more
readily.

If there is one part of the FAA regulation that has really
confounded this whole thing, it has been the barriers to entry for
instructors. And the barriers to Airplane instructors are
important too, because there is a lot of instructor spillover.





--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

I guess we all know each other so well, and our 2-33 is so
easy to fly, and the terrain is so flat and landable in every
direction, and our towpilot so experienced, that we
tend to get lax.

I have no idea what our insurer thinks. Other than sending them checks,
I don't think we've ever talked to them.

I've never heard of an insurer denying coverage for a flight
where a private pilot paid at least his fair share of the direct costs,
regardless of how long he'd known the passenger. I'd sure like
to hear an example of this in a glider. When I was a Private Pilot,
I flew plenty and split costs with passengers.

But come to think of it, I've never had any insurance claims

In article 87CLd.791$Tt.788@fed1read05,
BTIZ wrote:
"Centurion" wrote in message
...
Mark James Boyd wrote:

** Snipped **

Do you have 5 guys hangin' out a lot who are pilots but
not instructors? Have you checked them out in the
back seat? Do they understand how to brief brand
new passengers who've never flown in anything before?
Do they take airsick bags, keep the flights short,
do flights in nice smooth air,
let the passenger pull the release so it doesn't go unexpectedly BANG?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is a very interesting point. I've been flying for almost 20 years,
been an airline pilot and flying instructor, but never been passenger
rated
in a glider. Everything else you mentioned I sat here nodding knowingly
(been there, done that, cleaned the chunder from the panel...), until the
point about the cable release.

Have to remember that when I get pax rated soon Or at least make sure
they (the punters) know exactly what to expect if club policy wont allow a
"non-pilot" to pull the bung.
Cheers,
James
You've been leading a dog's life. Stay off the furniture.

Most clubs and insurance companies would look at this type of operation as a
"Demo" flight and require a Commercial rated glider pilot to "give the ride"
as stated in the insurance policy. I think the only way you could actually
do a "shared expense ride" with a Private Pilot, would be if the Pvt PIC
actually knew the person before that day, and was not taking the "ride" for
a flight except at the suggestion of someone else and not have it questioned
by the insurance company in the event of an incident.

I'll agree that the original suggestion did not differentiate between Comm
or Pvt, just the "back seat checkout", and yes.. we also require back seat
checkouts on all our pilots who wish to exercise PIC privileges from the aft
pilot compartment.

When flying the SGS 2-33, the release is a BANG if "soft release techniques"
are not used
with the Grob103, it is more of a thud.. but then again.. soft release and
almost nothing is heard.

BT




--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

The numbers will continue to shrink in the current environment.

BUT, there is a way that soaring can move into the forefront. And, in this
way, the numbers of pilots could indeed quadruple. But the status quo itself
is the main impediment. There are too many entities that have a vested
interest in keeping things exactly the same...presiding over their own
eventual disappearance.

It is not that these entities know what they are doing. In fact, they are
just trying to survive in some cases and doing what they see are the best
methods for improving and expanding the sport. In any endeavor, the
establishment acts in this manner.

And, in any endeavor with a steady input of youth, the status quo is
eventually either replaced or swept aside. As one of many, many examples,
take snowboards. Skills derived from skateboarding went to the ski slopes
over the dead bodies of the skiers. Now, the growth is in shredding, not
skiing. It is not because the establishment of skiers decided to switch. It
is because the young wanted them out of the way and when they did not move,
they were ignored.

This analogy can be replaced with dozens more but how does it apply to
soaring and what I see as a dilemna in participation? I think a similar act
by ANY young pilots could revive the sport...or reverse it in certain ways.
First, they must ignore sailplane racing as it exists today. It is, in fact,
a baseball game being played with a corked bat.

First, a hundred grand for an airplane that you cannot fly but four months a
year is a luxury and one that youth cannot afford and most people cannot
justify. It is hard enough justifying an airplane that actually goes places.
Sailboats can sail year round even if they don't. There are cheaper
alternatives, though. The 13M ship is that alternatives. Still not cheap, it
costs less than many of the cars that kids drive today.

But how can a less capable aircraft compete against more capable ones? It
cannot. So screw them. Play your own game. Instead of competing in "vacation
eating", death-march-tasked boredom festivals in desolate back country, hold
sprint races wherever you can find lift.

A Sprint Race (invented by ME) involves a few aircraft starting in a
cylinder at the same time (yes, i know the Euros are doing something similar
now but I proposed it long before them), flying a short task (to quarter
mile AST turnpoints) designed to last no more than an hour and a half, and
finishing at a FINISH LINE in front of the gate/audience/crews. The time
limit is important for several reasons; not the least of which is the
boredom that exists back at the strip while you are out in your ship
scratching around in two knots. Fellows: She isn't coming back out to help
you ever again after you put her through that. But if she doesn't have to
commit the family vacation and the entire lifestyle, gets to visit with
other people who are excited about a race they are watching, then she just
might. And with 30:1 ships, you just might need a crew again.....

The ships and trailers will be painted in a variety of bright colors and
covered with vinyl advertisements not unlike the vehicles of the most
popular sport in America. If one wants to push it, then the production
methods proposed by me for a televised race bought by Fox to be shown ten
times could be employed. Lipstick cameras, camera ships, computer images
(held to a minimum) and all that stuff could be used to create a venue that
is watchable, exciting and inviting...especially when a young pilot crawls
out of the winning ship to stand on the podium to collect his/her check and
put his Red Bull cap on for the cameras to see.

It is a race that favors skill just like it does now. You have to find lift.
You have to have situation awareness. You have to practice. But you don't
need anyone to call a PST so you can stay in the lead over a week of racing.
The guy in front is in the lead. Got it? Like a RACE! Local eliminations
create a hierarchy that competes in the Nationals.

In two years, I could have the National Champion of Sprint Racing on the
front cover of Outside Magazine. That's when it would quadruple. Sky Racing.
Cloud Sprints. Skyluges. Not gliders. Crash helmets. Not silly old man's
doofus hats. Reflexes. Not reflection. And the cool thing is that there is
no reason that the same people cannot compete. It just favors gamblers a
little more than bookies like the current thing does.

No. It's not the kindly old gentleman's sport that is now dying of
constipation. But, on the other hand, it kicks ass. It is something that
someone (spelled A M E R I C A N) would want to do. We couldn't beat the
Euros at open wheel Formula One racing. So what did we do? We started drag
racing. Honestly, the idea of being alone way the hell out in nowhere while
all my friends are getting laid is not exactly what I have in mind for a fun
weekend. On the other hand, winners get laid. Right. Get laid.

Don't be so naive as to ask what the relevance of that phrase is to growth,
attraction of youth, attraction of sponsors and money, or survival of the
fittest sport. Winners get laid and they get rewarded and they get famous.
Think about all the dead guys you know in soaring while I think about all
the dead guys I know in aviation in general. The other guys were trying to
make money, win a prize, or do the impossible. In soaring, you can lose big
but you cannot ever win big.

Cost too much for what you get. Requires too much time for what you get.
Involves too risk for what you get. It is not all those things that everyone
says about money, time and risk. It is WHAT YOU GET that your fellow
Americans don't recognize as worth it. Ever notice how their eyes glaze over
when you try to tell them about the beauty of flying with an eagle? Now tell
them about passing someone in the final stretch of a race in your bright red
Sparrowhawk to finish just out of the money and see how they follow every
word. They are the market.

Duh.

So, we have the manufacturers of 13M gliders. They have to wait until the
infrastructure creates enough pilots before they start to sell gliders in
any numbers. And the infrastructure cannot do it. And the status quo will
just want to start yet another class thereby burying these less capable
machines. No. If they want to sell, they have to sell into their own sport
with their own marketing. And they need someone like me to do it. Otherwise,
they will be a minor footnote. They must separate now, in my not so humble
opinion.

Ahhh. That felt good.

Say, John,

Have you seen the latest gliders? $4,000 and they look real, real cool.
Well, at least the pilot and the FAA think it's a glider.
But don't tell anybody, ok, this will just be our little secret...shhhhh

http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~mjboyd/cfi/...lverGlider.jpg

Shhhhhh...

In article . net,
John Shelton wrote:
The numbers will continue to shrink in the current environment.

BUT, there is a way that soaring can move into the forefront. And, in this
way, the numbers of pilots could indeed quadruple. But the status quo itself
is the main impediment. There are too many entities that have a vested
interest in keeping things exactly the same...presiding over their own
eventual disappearance.

It is not that these entities know what they are doing. In fact, they are
just trying to survive in some cases and doing what they see are the best
methods for improving and expanding the sport. In any endeavor, the
establishment acts in this manner.

And, in any endeavor with a steady input of youth, the status quo is
eventually either replaced or swept aside. As one of many, many examples,
take snowboards. Skills derived from skateboarding went to the ski slopes
over the dead bodies of the skiers. Now, the growth is in shredding, not
skiing. It is not because the establishment of skiers decided to switch. It
is because the young wanted them out of the way and when they did not move,
they were ignored.

This analogy can be replaced with dozens more but how does it apply to
soaring and what I see as a dilemna in participation? I think a similar act
by ANY young pilots could revive the sport...or reverse it in certain ways.
First, they must ignore sailplane racing as it exists today. It is, in fact,
a baseball game being played with a corked bat.

First, a hundred grand for an airplane that you cannot fly but four months a
year is a luxury and one that youth cannot afford and most people cannot
justify. It is hard enough justifying an airplane that actually goes places.
Sailboats can sail year round even if they don't. There are cheaper
alternatives, though. The 13M ship is that alternatives. Still not cheap, it
costs less than many of the cars that kids drive today.

But how can a less capable aircraft compete against more capable ones? It
cannot. So screw them. Play your own game. Instead of competing in "vacation
eating", death-march-tasked boredom festivals in desolate back country, hold
sprint races wherever you can find lift.

A Sprint Race (invented by ME) involves a few aircraft starting in a
cylinder at the same time (yes, i know the Euros are doing something similar
now but I proposed it long before them), flying a short task (to quarter
mile AST turnpoints) designed to last no more than an hour and a half, and
finishing at a FINISH LINE in front of the gate/audience/crews. The time
limit is important for several reasons; not the least of which is the
boredom that exists back at the strip while you are out in your ship
scratching around in two knots. Fellows: She isn't coming back out to help
you ever again after you put her through that. But if she doesn't have to
commit the family vacation and the entire lifestyle, gets to visit with
other people who are excited about a race they are watching, then she just
might. And with 30:1 ships, you just might need a crew again.....

The ships and trailers will be painted in a variety of bright colors and
covered with vinyl advertisements not unlike the vehicles of the most
popular sport in America. If one wants to push it, then the production
methods proposed by me for a televised race bought by Fox to be shown ten
times could be employed. Lipstick cameras, camera ships, computer images
(held to a minimum) and all that stuff could be used to create a venue that
is watchable, exciting and inviting...especially when a young pilot crawls
out of the winning ship to stand on the podium to collect his/her check and
put his Red Bull cap on for the cameras to see.

It is a race that favors skill just like it does now. You have to find lift.
You have to have situation awareness. You have to practice. But you don't
need anyone to call a PST so you can stay in the lead over a week of racing.
The guy in front is in the lead. Got it? Like a RACE! Local eliminations
create a hierarchy that competes in the Nationals.

In two years, I could have the National Champion of Sprint Racing on the
front cover of Outside Magazine. That's when it would quadruple. Sky Racing.
Cloud Sprints. Skyluges. Not gliders. Crash helmets. Not silly old man's
doofus hats. Reflexes. Not reflection. And the cool thing is that there is
no reason that the same people cannot compete. It just favors gamblers a
little more than bookies like the current thing does.

No. It's not the kindly old gentleman's sport that is now dying of
constipation. But, on the other hand, it kicks ass. It is something that
someone (spelled A M E R I C A N) would want to do. We couldn't beat the
Euros at open wheel Formula One racing. So what did we do? We started drag
racing. Honestly, the idea of being alone way the hell out in nowhere while
all my friends are getting laid is not exactly what I have in mind for a fun
weekend. On the other hand, winners get laid. Right. Get laid.

Don't be so naive as to ask what the relevance of that phrase is to growth,
attraction of youth, attraction of sponsors and money, or survival of the
fittest sport. Winners get laid and they get rewarded and they get famous.
Think about all the dead guys you know in soaring while I think about all
the dead guys I know in aviation in general. The other guys were trying to
make money, win a prize, or do the impossible. In soaring, you can lose big
but you cannot ever win big.

Cost too much for what you get. Requires too much time for what you get.
Involves too risk for what you get. It is not all those things that everyone
says about money, time and risk. It is WHAT YOU GET that your fellow
Americans don't recognize as worth it. Ever notice how their eyes glaze over
when you try to tell them about the beauty of flying with an eagle? Now tell
them about passing someone in the final stretch of a race in your bright red
Sparrowhawk to finish just out of the money and see how they follow every
word. They are the market.

Duh.

So, we have the manufacturers of 13M gliders. They have to wait until the
infrastructure creates enough pilots before they start to sell gliders in
any numbers. And the infrastructure cannot do it. And the status quo will
just want to start yet another class thereby burying these less capable
machines. No. If they want to sell, they have to sell into their own sport
with their own marketing. And they need someone like me to do it. Otherwise,
they will be a minor footnote. They must separate now, in my not so humble
opinion.

Ahhh. That felt good.




--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Dear John...( I've always liked that line)

It sounds like you have this all thought and planned out...why don't you
just proceed and get your contest going...? I mean, it's not as though you
need permission from us to do it. Plan the event and go to town. It's sort
of an "If you build it, they will come" type of approach. Setup the contest,
and then start inviting everyone who qualifies to come participate. It could
work out well.

Of course I won't be able to participate because you've excluded me, due to
my extra few meters of wing and a bit more L/D...so I'll just sit and sulk
and apparently not get laid...

I guess my real thought, is that there is no single thing that's going to
change our sport, because there's no one single draw to the sport. For me,
it's time alone in the mountains, enjoying my sailplane and the majestic
scenery that is all mine. I don't expect you or anyone else to get it, but
for me it's enough to keep me coming back again and again. For others, it
clearly is about racing. Maybe by not frowning on the status quo, quite so
much, but offering alternative venues, you would have a positive impact,
without offending the die hard purists who will always have their own vision
of soaring. In my opinion, it's all good...just let's get guys butts in the
seats and work to reduce the hassle of accomplishing that goal...I really
believe growth will come in incremental ways.

I do agree with you wholeheartedly on one thing and that is that soaring is
more of an extreme sport, than an old fuddy duddy sport. We don't tout
enough, it's adventurous side...I know there's a million reasons for that,
but I think we should share a bit more of what it CAN be...than what it
isn't.


respectfully,


Steve.

Why frown at the status quo? Because even the stupidest person in soaring
knows that the numbers are not keeping up with either population growth or
leisure spending or public exposure of "extreme sports". That is almost a
pure definition of the phrase "it is NOT WORKING." If you do not grow, you
die. If you do not add on youth at a much greater rate than you lose to
death and drop outs, you die.

And, no, I don't need permission to do any of this. I need 6 or 8 ships. Got
some extra money? I need to promote it outside the "community". Got some
extra money, time, connections? I need to run headlong over the top of
almost everything in existence except the guys who sell Sectionals. Got an
infrastructure?

Bang. Bang. Bang. ouch! my head.

Mark James Boyd wrote:
Say, John,

Have you seen the latest gliders? $4,000 and they look real, real cool.
Well, at least the pilot and the FAA think it's a glider.
But don't tell anybody, ok, this will just be our little secret...shhhhh

I doubt _anyone_ thinks it's a glider, but apparently they do registered
that way sometimes. It's certainly not going to work for what John wants
to do. It might serve to introduce pilots to slope soaring and
thermalling, especially if there are two seaters, and maybe this would
whet the appetite of someone for glider that could fly cross country (or
even just to the next thermal occasionally).

Potentially, having aircraft that aren't gliders being registered as
gliders could cause us problems, such as rules and regulations (FAA,
airport, insurance) that address their operation and safety record,
which could screw up sailplane operations. I think we've been lucky that
touring motorgliders have been included in the glider category for so
long without causing apparent problems, and maybe having ultralight
airplanes in the mix won't either. Maybe all the players will understand
these are gliders by registration only, and treat them appropriately,
rather that treating all registered gliders the same.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

At 09:00 02 February 2005, John Shelton wrote:
The numbers will continue to shrink in the current
environment.

The elephant in the corner of the room no one seems
to want to acknowledge...I agree that you are unfortunately
correct.

As one of many, many examples,
take snowboards. Skills derived from skateboarding
went to the ski slopes
over the dead bodies of the skiers. Now, the growth
is in shredding, not
skiing. It is not because the establishment of skiers
decided to switch. It
is because the young wanted them out of the way and
when they did not move,
they were ignored.

A beautiful analogy...skiers still don't get it. 70k
spectators at Aspen for WinterX, 1k at Vail being bored
watching World Cup.

Ever notice how their eyes glaze over
when you try to tell them about the beauty of flying
with an eagle?


John, please never stop posting here...it gives some
of us hope. You definitely let the left brain work
on soaring...something it does not do enough. Personally
I think you are missing out on some other wonderful
competition scenarios..starting with the Ipaq Olympics...prettiest
colors, best able to reconfigure, most efficient use
of battery, cleanest cables, most cluttered and unusable
screen, to be most accurate this all happens on the
ground at the airport...where Ipaq pecking order seems
to be an attraction for many.

So,
Ahhh. That felt good.

I think it's a glider. The pilot thinks it's a glider. The AC
defines it as a glider. The DAR thinks it's a glider. The FAA
thinks it's a glider. The instructor who signed him off
for self-launch thinks it's a glider.

And there are now at least several dozen ultralight pilots who
think it is a glider. Eric, if you're so sure it isn't a glider,
you better get in and STOP this craziness, before it ruins gliding!
Call and write the people who make the rules and tell them how
wrong it is to use span and weight calculations to define a glider.
And how wrong it is to use minimum sink as a parameter, and
how penetration is what really matters.

Of course, you might want to be careful. If you're too
convincing, they'll cancel making ultralights gliders, but
will start certifying jet airliners all as gliders. Then
you'll need a type rating and part 121 check to fly
your self-launcher!!!!

:P

Hmmm...thinking about John's idea, yeah I'd love to watch
a half dozen of these gliders jamming around a short triangle course
at Avenal. And a toilet paper cutting contest too...

But that's ok, Eric. If you don't want them, we'll take them.
After all, they have to spend their money SOMEWHERE, right?

:PPPPP

In article ,
Eric Greenwell wrote:
Mark James Boyd wrote:
Say, John,

Have you seen the latest gliders? $4,000 and they look real, real cool.
Well, at least the pilot and the FAA think it's a glider.
But don't tell anybody, ok, this will just be our little secret...shhhhh

I doubt _anyone_ thinks it's a glider, but apparently they do registered
that way sometimes. It's certainly not going to work for what John wants
to do. It might serve to introduce pilots to slope soaring and
thermalling, especially if there are two seaters, and maybe this would
whet the appetite of someone for glider that could fly cross country (or
even just to the next thermal occasionally).

Potentially, having aircraft that aren't gliders being registered as
gliders could cause us problems, such as rules and regulations (FAA,
airport, insurance) that address their operation and safety record,
which could screw up sailplane operations. I think we've been lucky that
touring motorgliders have been included in the glider category for so
long without causing apparent problems, and maybe having ultralight
airplanes in the mix won't either. Maybe all the players will understand
these are gliders by registration only, and treat them appropriately,
rather that treating all registered gliders the same.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA


--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

The actuaries think that these gliders are the same risk as even the
safest gliders available. Fortunately there are enough already registered
as experimentals they already have a track record.

Avemco quotes about $280 for the single seat Quicksilver glider,
about $330 for two seat Quicksilver glider.
1-800-874-9125 (I don't have any financial interest in this company,
but I am a customer).

This is similar to what it charges for the same coverage in 1-26 and 2-33.
And similar to the coverage of Baby Ace and Cessna 172.

The rates quoted are for basic liability only, $100,000/$400,000.

As far as I can tell, as an insurance outsider, it seems that
these gliders fall into the same "lowest risk group"
as the other aircraft mentioned.

Could there be a rash of accidents in Quicksilver gliders that
might damage the sport of gliding as a whole? Require transponders
and ELTs in all gliders? Perhaps. But I don't see this.

*******Transponders become mandatory?*******

If transponders (especially mode S) and ELTs end up becoming mandated
in gliders, I don't see the Quicksilver gliders being the cause.
If transponders become mandatory, I'd point my finger directly at
Delta, Continental, regional airlines, etc. The ones that brought
you the 10,000 foot limit for Rec pilot, and who have a large
number of "retirees" who are FSDO employess now. Get a list of your
local FSDO ASI names and check:
http://registry.faa.gov/amquery.asp

A typical entry:
ATP
Type ratings: A/AVR-146 A/BAE-146 A/EMB-110 A/EMB-120 A/SD-3

Many FAA ASIs have airline time. The thought of a non-transpondered
aircraft doing mach .05 while they are closing with 100+ passengers
at mach .50+ makes them a bit nervous even to talk about.

Fortunately for soaring, airliners seem to generally avoid turbulence,
while sailplanes seek it, so there seems to be some natural tendency
towards separation already. And something like the Quicksilver glider
just isn't going to fly above 10,000 anyway with the power on, since
the engine doesn't have that much UMPH!

I think if we see transponders, it will be TSA or maybe a jet/glider midair
precipitating it. I don't think Quicksilver is gonna make that happen...

Eric Greenwell wrote:

Potentially, having aircraft that aren't gliders being registered as
gliders could cause us problems, such as rules and regulations (FAA,
airport, insurance) that address their operation and safety record,
which could screw up sailplane operations. I think we've been lucky that
touring motorgliders have been included in the glider category for so
long without causing apparent problems, and maybe having ultralight
airplanes in the mix won't either. Maybe all the players will understand
these are gliders by registration only, and treat them appropriately,
rather that treating all registered gliders the same.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA


--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd


--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd