When to descend II

You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF

Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual
approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7."

On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land."

Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and
come on down?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

On 2007-10-29, Dan Luke wrote:
You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF

Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual
approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7."

On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land."

Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and
come on down?


Seems odd that Approach would tell you "cross ROYCE" since its not between you
and the runway.

On 10/29/2007 4:29:08 PM, "Dan Luke" wrote:

Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared
visual approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7."

On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land."

Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers
and come on down?

Not enough information. Were you tracking the ILS when the visual approach
was issued? Or were you approaching the airport from another direction?

In any case, I would have asked approach for clarification before switching
over to tower if I were NOT tracking the ILS already.


--
Peter

Dan Luke wrote:

You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF

Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual
approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7."

On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land."

Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and
come on down?


I presume approach had vectored you onto the localizer previously or you
would not be able to identify ROYCE.

The instruction to cross ROYCE at or above two-thousand is an IFR
restriction with which you must comply because the visual approach isn't
authorized until passing ROYCE.

The tower's subsequent clearance to land has no affect on your IFR
altitude, and then visual clearance, issued by approach control. You
still have to cross ROYCE at, or above, 2,000 landing clearance
notwithstanding.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:29:12 -0500, "Dan Luke"
wrote:

You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF

Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual
approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7."

On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land."

Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and
come on down?

I've not flown in that area, but ATC may be wanting you to fly to Royce
before turning inbound because of traffic on approach to Rwy 12L. There are
some issues with intersecting flight paths that need to be avoided when
dealing with parallel runway operations.

Having said that, I would have assumed ATC wanted me to fly to ROYCE before
turning inbound, at or above two thousand; but I would request
clarification from the tower as to whether I could go straight in from my
present position, if that seemed a viable alternative.

Of course, if in VMC, you could cancel your IFR flight plan, mooting the
previous ATC clearance.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

An at or above altitude in a clearance like that almost always means
there will be traffic under you going into a different airport.




Ron Rosenfeld wrote:

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:29:12 -0500, "Dan Luke"
wrote:


You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF

Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual
approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7."

On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land."

Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and
come on down?


I've not flown in that area, but ATC may be wanting you to fly to Royce
before turning inbound because of traffic on approach to Rwy 12L. There are
some issues with intersecting flight paths that need to be avoided when
dealing with parallel runway operations.

Having said that, I would have assumed ATC wanted me to fly to ROYCE before
turning inbound, at or above two thousand; but I would request
clarification from the tower as to whether I could go straight in from my
present position, if that seemed a viable alternative.

Of course, if in VMC, you could cancel your IFR flight plan, mooting the
previous ATC clearance.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:


I've not flown in that area, but ATC may be wanting you to fly to Royce
before turning inbound because of traffic on approach to Rwy 12L. There are
some issues with intersecting flight paths that need to be avoided when
dealing with parallel runway operations.

If it is a "maybe" in your mind, then it's best to comply.

Having said that, I would have assumed ATC wanted me to fly to ROYCE before
turning inbound, at or above two thousand; but I would request
clarification from the tower as to whether I could go straight in from my
present position, if that seemed a viable alternative.

No turn inbound required. He is presumably already on the localizer or
he couldn't identify ROYCE.

Of course, if in VMC, you could cancel your IFR flight plan, mooting the
previous ATC clearance.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Might not be the best airspace to be doing that without making sure you
won't be descending onto some other aircraft like Newps says.

Dan Luke wrote:
You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF

Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared visual
approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7."

On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land."

Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers and
come on down?


From 4SW of Royce...

I'd go to Royce as instructed, and begin my visual descent after
crossing Royce, making my right turn inbound, and visually identifying
the airport.

Crossing Royce @ 2000 doesn't make for an uncomfortable descent, and
it's not so far out of the way, so I don't think I'd bother to question
the clearance.

If things weren't busy, I'd probably just ask if I can head for the
numbers once I was on with the tower.

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 02:47:51 -0700, Bee wrote:

No turn inbound required. He is presumably already on the localizer or
he couldn't identify ROYCE.

Bee,

I don't believe he can be 4 mi SW of ROYCE and also on the localizer for
Rwy 12. Or am I missing something?
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 02:47:51 -0700, Bee wrote:


No turn inbound required. He is presumably already on the localizer or
he couldn't identify ROYCE.


Bee,

I don't believe he can be 4 mi SW of ROYCE and also on the localizer for
Rwy 12. Or am I missing something?
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

He probably meant NW. You can't identify ROYCE unless you are on the
localizer.