It only takes one...

Kyle Boatright wrote:

Interesting question. I was #4 on downwind. If #2 had turned base, I think
that would have been reasonable, but #4 turning base in front of 3 people on
downwind might not have been appropriate...

I don't see what would be inappropriate about it. If those 2 planes ahead
are continuing to follow the guy who's over 2.5 miles away, you will
certainly not be a factor to any of the 3 by the time they get back to the
airport later that day.

We get students flying these jumbo patterns quite a bit at my (towered)
home field. The tower folks know I fly a tight pattern, so when practicing
T&Gs behind one, the tower gives me a short approach when I'm abeam the
numbers. I'm usually turning from the crosswind to downwind by the time the
student crosses the threshold. I can generally make 3 laps for every 2 the
student makes, and never get in the other plane's way.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200705/1

On May 2, 5:19 am, "Peter R." wrote:
On 5/1/2007 11:12:37 PM, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote:

I'm not arguing with the general point of your posting but I will take a
poke at your assertion about being outside of gliding range of the field.

Isn't this guideline based on the theory that there is a higher chance of
engine failure during changes in power settings? A reduction of power while
entering the pattern, I recall reading, presents a statistically higher
chance of engine failure than while at cruise.

--
Peter

Interesting...
Sounds to me like: "There is a higher chance that the engine will quit
while the pilot is manipulating the throttles, mixture, and carb
heat." And in the pattern, the statistics might count because there
is less time to recover than from, say, 10,000 feet

Crash Lander wrote:
"ManhattanMan" wrote in message
...

I had an occassion where I entered downwind, had already passed the field,
only other traffic was a guy still several miles out on a straight in
final, and the tower cleared me for immediate landing, which was no
problem in a 150, so I turned base - the guy still miles out really got
his shorts bunched up and started screaming that someone had cut in front
of him!!!!! Tower told him to cool it, there was more than adequate
spacing.. d:-))


He obviously was not listening to the radio, otherwise he would have heard
tower give you clearance to land!
Crash Lander


Johnson County Airport south of Kansas City is a towered airport. While
working on my commerical there and doing pattern work, there would be
some one in the pattern doing very large circuits. If appropriate I
would request a short approach from the tower and he would give it to
me. A legal cut in front of....

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

"flynrider via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote

If he'd just kept on going, would you guys have kept on following? If
someone ahead of me is flying 2.5 miles beyond the normal downwind, I turn
base. I'll be tying up the airplane before he gets back.

I have to admit, I thought the same thing.
--
Jim in NC

"ManhattanMan" wrote:

I had an occassion where I entered downwind, had already passed the
field, only other traffic was a guy still several miles out on a
straight in final, and the tower cleared me for immediate landing,

I've had the same thing happen. Tower can tell if you're faster and flying a tighter pattern. In my case, if I
recall, he cleared me for the touch and go without me asking for the shortcut. Maybe it's their way of
sendng a not so subtle message to the guys flying the huge patterns.

Mike

On Tue, 1 May 2007 21:55:56 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:

This evening, one careless, clueless, oblivious, inattentive (choose one)
pilot made a shambles of the pattern at my home field for 10 minutes.

It was 20 minutes before dusk and the flock was returning home - there were
aircraft in the pattern and at least 3 inbound. A guy (in a Cessna)
announced a midfield crossover entry into the pattern for a touch and go,
but indicated that he'd have to extend his downwind because he was 500'
above pattern altitude. Fair enough, I thought - the guy is gonna fly a
normal downwind + 1/2 mile.

Long story short, the guy flew a normal downwind plus 2.5 miles, and his
downwind was literally a mile wide to boot...

So the airplane behind him (another Cessna) had to fly the same B-52
pattern, the Grumman behind *him* had to fly a B-47 pattern, and I followed

No he didn't.

with a B-29 pattern. Two inbound aircraft recognized that the traffic
pattern was a mess and opted to do loiter outside the pattern to let things
correct themselves.

What I see happen here is the guy flying the wide and or long base is
very likely to find him, or her self outside the pattern with a whole
group of planes flying the normal patterns.

When you have a mix of every thing from ultra lights to high
performance twins you can easily have two on down wind with one a city
block out and another a mile out.

the same is true for the long down wind. Every one thinks they are
headed else where regardless of their radio calls.

It leads to a lot of neck swiveling trying to find the errant plane,
but we are lined right up with the 14 VOR approach into MBS. Planes
flying the VOR 14 *should* be about a 1000 feet above our pattern, but
VFR traffic will often be not much above our pattern and a plane 2
miles out does not appear to be in the pattern. Soooo...Those
stretching the pattern way out to the side or in length often turn
final to find as many as two on base on one on final ahead of them. On
a busy day if they fly both wide and long it could be even more.

No one...well not many stay inside on purpose, but they really can't
claim they were cut off when they are so far out pilots in the pattern
think they were headed some where else. We had that happen when a
Mooney flew a very wide and long pattern and fund an ultra light and
another plane on base and final ahead of him. He found no sympathy
from the other pilots or airport manager when he complained. Actually
the manager wanted to know why he was flying a non standard pattern.




Then the original Cessna flying doofus flew an abbreviated upwind and
crosswind after his touch and go and cut off the folks who had loitered
waiting for everything to sort itself out. Aargh! I don't think I'll ever
understand this type of pilot...

The question in my mind was... Did the Cessna flying doofus even realize
that A) he was flying a dumb and dangerous pattern, being outside of gliding
range from the field, or that B) he caused a bad chain reaction in the
pattern.??

As I said: It only takes one.