Glider Towplane Mid-air – TP PowerFLARM Inop

Correct, bunted and midair entered on my tablet. Dratted autocorrect. It has just done the same again. I should have proof read before hitting post.

To answer another question - the perspex of my canopy departed from the shock of the collision. I found myself pointing at the ground, hanging from my straps in the open air. However I have no doubt there would have been plenty of time to jettison the canopy. The pilot of the other glider an ASW27 with a forward hinged canopy (and spinning with a wing broken off) managed to exit without jettisoning the canopy. Neither of us was hurt - we were amazingly lucky. Incidentally this was in 2003 - I am convinced that this was one crash which would have been prevented by Flarm.

On Wednesday, February 12, 2020 at 11:14:50 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
On Wednesday, February 12, 2020 at 8:24:05 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 11:46:52 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:

You can't hardly blame the glider pilot: they were flying straight ahead and were struck from behind. The tow pilot is clearly the one at fault.

Tom

There's one thing we know for sure about accident reports: they aren't 100% accurate. I think we ought to hesitate to convict someone we've never met based on evidence that can't be verified.

The report had the tracks of the two aircraft.

Tom

The report has a two dimensional cartoon. To the extent that the cartoon is accurate, I think you'd be wrong to lay all the blame on the tow pilot.

-Evan

Originally Posted by 2G

On Wednesday, February 12, 2020 at 8:24:05 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 11:46:52 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:

You can't hardly blame the glider pilot: they were flying straight ahead and were struck from behind. The tow pilot is clearly the one at fault.

Tom

There's one thing we know for sure about accident reports: they aren't 100% accurate. I think we ought to hesitate to convict someone we've never met based on evidence that can't be verified.

The report had the tracks of the two aircraft.

Tom

Looking at the ground track the tow pilot turned right after release and the glider continued straight I understand the tow pilot didn't feel the release ? But the instructor should have had the student turn right , was this customary practice at this field?

When I fly I'm assuming the tow pilot will turn/dive left and head for downwind pattern entry. 99% of the time this has been the case for me but I always try to maintain visual . One day the 1% occurrence happened when I released and turned right into severe sink and the tow pilot ended up in 1000' per minute lift . After a quick trip down I asked him why he climbed rather than dove his comment was "No matter what direction he turned he was going up".

Unknown weather a factor in this accident ?

On Wednesday, February 12, 2020 at 8:41:55 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
Point taken, but a soft release is never a good thing from the tow
pilot's perspective.Â* When flying my glider I seldom released softly but
I always announced, "5J's off, thanks!"

On 2/11/2020 9:46 PM, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 10:53:29 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
When I was towing, I would visually confirm that the glider was off and
then roll steeply and dive.Â* If I hadn't felt the glider get off, I
would fly straight and level for a bit to assure clearance before
beginning a more moderate descent.Â* I also maintained awareness of any
gliders that had not climbed away.

I would blame both of the pilots in this accident but would assign most
of the blame to the tow pilot.Â* Making what amounts to a level turn just
after release is asking for trouble.

On 2/11/2020 8:51 AM, Waveguru wrote:
This seems to happen every few years, where the tow plane makes a left turn and the glider make a right and they come around and collide. I changed the way we do it here so that the glider only makes a slight right turn, and then keeps his eye on the tow plane, so that at least one of the pair of planes can more easily maintain separation. When both planes make a 360° turn, neither of them can see the other. This kind of accident is the result.

Boggs
--
Dan, 5J
You can't hardly blame the glider pilot: they were flying straight ahead and were struck from behind. The tow pilot is clearly the one at fault.

Tom

--
Dan, 5J

There's been mention of people trained to announce the release on the radio.. Should not this be in the SOPs of the operation? It is wherever I fly - glider is ALWAYS to announce release, tow plane acknowledges. If you aren't going to communicate with the aircraft 200 ft away, why have a radio at all?

TSB Canada informed me that the towplane track came from its GPS. The glider PowerFLARM was destroyed, but they were able to retrieve the post release glider track. TSB does not put up public dockets like the NTSB.

I had a tow behind the accident C-182 last year and turned right after release into a hopeful thermal. About 270° through the turn I saw the towplane coming back at the same altitude and promptly steepened my turn.

Heard nothing from my PowerFLARM and did not think to see if the PF display showed the towplane as I was fully occupied staying out of its way. Possibly the towplane PF may have been inop.

On a somewhat disturbing note the presence of a PowerFLARM in a private glider brought to the field has delayed the annual sign-off. It seems the AME (Canadian for A&P) is under scrutiny by Transport Canada for signing off on gliders (and possibly a towplane) with PowerFLARM installed.

At 16:14 13 February 2020, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, February 12, 2020 at 8:41:55 AM UTC-8, Dan
Marotta wrote:
Point taken, but a soft release is never a good thing from the
tow=20
pilot's perspective.=C2=A0 When flying my glider I seldom
released
softly=
but=20
I always announced, "5J's off, thanks!"
=20
On 2/11/2020 9:46 PM, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 10:53:29 AM UTC-8, Dan
Marotta wrote:
When I was towing, I would visually confirm that the glider
was off
an=
d
then roll steeply and dive.=C2=A0 If I hadn't felt the glider
get
off,=
I
would fly straight and level for a bit to assure clearance
before
beginning a more moderate descent.=C2=A0 I also
maintained awareness
o=
f any
gliders that had not climbed away.



I would blame both of the pilots in this accident but would
assign
mos=
t
of the blame to the tow pilot.=C2=A0 Making what amounts
to a level
tu=
rn just
after release is asking for trouble.

On 2/11/2020 8:51 AM, Waveguru wrote:
This seems to happen every few years, where the tow plane
makes a
lef=
t turn and the glider make a right and they come around and
collide. I
cha=
nged the way we do it here so that the glider only makes a slight
right
tur=
n, and then keeps his eye on the tow plane, so that at least one of
the
pai=
r of planes can more easily maintain separation. When both planes
make a
3=
60=C2=B0 turn, neither of them can see the other. This kind of
accident
is=
the result.

Boggs
--=20
Dan, 5J
You can't hardly blame the glider pilot: they were flying
straight
ahea=
d and were struck from behind. The tow pilot is clearly the one at
fault.

Tom
=20
--=20
Dan, 5J

There's been mention of people trained to announce the release on
the
radio=
.. Should not this be in the SOPs of the operation? It is wherever I
fly -
g=
lider is ALWAYS to announce release, tow plane acknowledges. If
you aren't
=
going to communicate with the aircraft 200 ft away, why have a
radio at
all=
?


My club has a "no radio unless circuit calls" rule..
I ignore it and thank the tug so he knows I've released and accept
any reprimands.

I fly in differnt countries, and on occasion there are rocks on my right hand side. There is no "on fits all" rule, just airmanship.

It's complicated. I was on tow at a contest. The glider on tow ahead of us released and did a shallow 270, crossing back over the path he'd just flown.. I watch him come around as my towplane continued to climb. I should have said something but I judged we'd be clear so didn't (mistake). The glider pilot saw us and, startled, dove under our path (he was under it anyway by then) yelling about almost being hit by the towplane. The towpilot admitted he never saw the glider. Lotta of mistakes, including my own. A learning experience. Both other pilots were older/experienced/high time.

On Thursday, February 13, 2020 at 4:26:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:
It's complicated. I was on tow at a contest. The glider on tow ahead of us released and did a shallow 270, crossing back over the path he'd just flown. I watch him come around as my towplane continued to climb. I should have said something but I judged we'd be clear so didn't (mistake). The glider pilot saw us and, startled, dove under our path (he was under it anyway by then) yelling about almost being hit by the towplane. The towpilot admitted he never saw the glider. Lotta of mistakes, including my own. A learning experience. Both other pilots were older/experienced/high time.

Sorry, finger slipped on my mobile phone. Not much to add except that it's not always a single towplane/glider combo involved, especially at busy operations and even more so at a contest.

Chip Bearden
"JB"

A couple of comments:

A tug circling back at the same altitude is a critical safety risk. I
would say that some towing procedures need to be established and, if it
was the same tow pilot as the accident, he should look for something
else to do.

Does Transport Canada have a problem with PowerFlarm or is it a problem
with the installation methods?

On 2/13/2020 11:05 AM, George Haeh wrote:
TSB Canada informed me that the towplane track came from its GPS. The glider PowerFLARM was destroyed, but they were able to retrieve the post release glider track. TSB does not put up public dockets like the NTSB.

I had a tow behind the accident C-182 last year and turned right after release into a hopeful thermal. About 270° through the turn I saw the towplane coming back at the same altitude and promptly steepened my turn.

Heard nothing from my PowerFLARM and did not think to see if the PF display showed the towplane as I was fully occupied staying out of its way. Possibly the towplane PF may have been inop.

On a somewhat disturbing note the presence of a PowerFLARM in a private glider brought to the field has delayed the annual sign-off. It seems the AME (Canadian for A&P) is under scrutiny by Transport Canada for signing off on gliders (and possibly a towplane) with PowerFLARM installed.

--
Dan, 5J