Flarmnet

My hangar partner, airshow pilot Bob Carlton is fond of saying, "The most important piece of glass in a glass cockpit is above the glareshield."

However, Flarm is as valuable to me as the altimeter. Both tell me whether something solid (rock, aluminum or plastic) might ruin my day.

I've lost 4 friends in midairs before the introduction of Flarm.

Maybe you should come flying in the Alps or the Jura mountains on a pristine day to experience real glider traffic, and understand how many of these gliders you'd miss to see without Flarm. The last 2000 h flight time since I've installed Flarm back in 2005 has made me understand why these 4 friends did die.

wrote on 3/5/2020 3:53 AM:
Yep Krasn, it never will.

Somehow the old guys kept themselves alive and grew old in aviation, I wonder how they did that? Must have just been lots of luck over the years, yep, thats what it was, they were/are just lucky guys. Not much airmanship involved, not much acquired and applied knowledge borrowed from past mistakes, their own and others. Knowledge that became ingrained into permanent memory, and habit and applied into proper muscle response. No that wasn’t it, they were just lucky. Boy were they lucky guys!
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Hey I know, lets just all go on-line and fly our tasks on the computer, gee wiz, our next Nationals and Worlds can be right here, in the comfort of home racing against the “best� in the world sipping a cup of coffee. No outlanding worries, collision worries, fatigue worries, just simulation. YES, theres the answer! Lets all arrive at ultimate safety!

Oh wait, how did that heart attack slip up on you yesterday? The doctors said it was due to your poor diet and lack of excercise from your many hours of sim-glider flying.

I guess we forgot to build a magic box to take care of that particular factor. Somebody better get on that right away. We sure need to stay ahead of the curve on this safety thing.

You seem to be arguing the having Flarm makes the collision risk higher, so you
don't want anyone to use it. The users are telling you that you are wrong about
that. Nothing you've said about the old days seems persuasive, and yes, I was
flying in the 70's in contests and recreationally with maps, rulers, and plastic
prayer wheels. My head was in the cockpit a lot more than it is now, where a
glance at the moving map tells me more, and more accurately, than the maps, et al,
ever did.

But, if you don't think Flarm makes collision risk higher, then why do you care
about other pilots using it?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Hi Eric

No you’ve got me wrong on this one. I am definitely not arguing against flarm, or any other device intended to help awareness. I use them all myself. I am simply making a plea for folks to not depend on these devices, and to not only use, but perfect age old skills of airmanship.

We continue to trend down the road of modernization, that all well and fine, but it is ocuring at the expense of the most dependable and infinitely powerful tool we have, namely, our base of mental aeronautical knowledge and acquired skill.

I bring this perspective up quite frequently because I experience the degradation of these skills first hand daily in encounters with new cfi’s we are training for power line patrol work, and in mentoring guys who are getting into crop dusting and starting in xc soaring, as well as experiencing instances of this in some of the experienced soaring pilots I fly with.

Its not an either-or situation regarding adopting new technology and airmanship skills, but it should be a both-and situation. Problem is, most folks spend the majority of their time depending on the gadgets while not working at perfecting their airmanship.

My diatribe is a satirical attempt at showing the logical end results of the former perspective. The problem is, that satire is dang close to the truth of where we are heading in our sport.

Dan

I'm flying a Phoenix motor glider out of a towered airport near San Diego. It's not unusual to have 9 aircraft talking to the tower for landing instructions. ADS-B is needed, as we are in a mode C airspace and for safety. I've had a Flarm setup but it doesn't show both 1090 and 978 that are both used here. I've added a Sentry ADS-B receiver and an Ipad with Foreflight software so I can see all the ADS-B traffic. It is a real eye-opener to see what all is going on.
When I get to the mountains for soaring I can see the Flarm signals on one display and if they have ADS-B out I can see them on the Ipad also.
If you are counting on Flarm only realize most power traffic is not going to see you without looking out the canopy. They have not even heard of Flarm. I suggest you get ADS-B out.
I know Flarm is better in close thermaling situations but does not put out a signal to power traffic that does not have Flarm.
I hope someone can make a Flarm type device that works on the ADS-B frequencies. By all means, spend as much time as possible looking out through the canopy.

wrote on 3/5/2020 1:28 PM:
Hi Eric

No you’ve got me wrong on this one. I am definitely not arguing against flarm, or any other device intended to help awareness. I use them all myself. I am simply making a plea for folks to not depend on these devices, and to not only use, but perfect age old skills of airmanship.

We continue to trend down the road of modernization, that all well and fine, but it is ocuring at the expense of the most dependable and infinitely powerful tool we have, namely, our base of mental aeronautical knowledge and acquired skill.

I bring this perspective up quite frequently because I experience the degradation of these skills first hand daily in encounters with new cfi’s we are training for power line patrol work, and in mentoring guys who are getting into crop dusting and starting in xc soaring, as well as experiencing instances of this in some of the experienced soaring pilots I fly with.

Its not an either-or situation regarding adopting new technology and airmanship skills, but it should be a both-and situation. Problem is, most folks spend the majority of their time depending on the gadgets while not working at perfecting their airmanship.

My diatribe is a satirical attempt at showing the logical end results of the former perspective. The problem is, that satire is dang close to the truth of where we are heading in our sport.

Dan

This reply is easier to understand than the satire, because I don't know you well
enough to be sure I'm reading "satire" or maybe "grumpy old guy". We appear to be
addressing different subjects: I'm talking about the value of Flarm, you are
discussing your concerns about the change in soaring and it's pilots due to
technology.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Eric thanks for the reply. In my mind they are both somewhat related. Safety and the changes in soaring, soaring practice and competition go hand in hand. Also sometimes the introduction of new technology has unintended consequences as we see being discussed in some of the other recent threads concerning the use of tec and cheating.
Dan

On Friday, March 6, 2020 at 9:59:00 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Eric thanks for the reply. In my mind they are both somewhat related. Safety and the changes in soaring, soaring practice and competition go hand in hand. Also sometimes the introduction of new technology has unintended consequences as we see being discussed in some of the other recent threads concerning the use of tec and cheating.
Dan

I've been wondering how to teach the new XC pilots in our club relevant but mostly-lost skills such as pilotage and map reading, since they start right out with moving-map glide computers. I've resorted to, at least, generating some discussion about ways in which the computer can be wrong (or set up incorrectly, or misinterpreted), and how to sanity-check what you think the computer is telling you. Of course, that sanity-checking requires some independently acquired information, such as looking out the window at the ground.

Give them a sectional, and take away their battery, and send them on their way. Try doing it periodically. It's valuable and sometimes humbling.


I've been wondering how to teach the new XC pilots in our club relevant but mostly-lost skills such as pilotage and map reading, since they start right out with moving-map glide computers. I've resorted to, at least, generating some discussion about ways in which the computer can be wrong (or set up incorrectly, or misinterpreted), and how to sanity-check what you think the computer is telling you. Of course, that sanity-checking requires some independently acquired information, such as looking out the window at the ground.

On Friday, March 6, 2020 at 11:32:30 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, March 6, 2020 at 9:59:00 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Eric thanks for the reply. In my mind they are both somewhat related. Safety and the changes in soaring, soaring practice and competition go hand in hand. Also sometimes the introduction of new technology has unintended consequences as we see being discussed in some of the other recent threads concerning the use of tec and cheating.
Dan

I've been wondering how to teach the new XC pilots in our club relevant but mostly-lost skills such as pilotage and map reading, since they start right out with moving-map glide computers. I've resorted to, at least, generating some discussion about ways in which the computer can be wrong (or set up incorrectly, or misinterpreted), and how to sanity-check what you think the computer is telling you. Of course, that sanity-checking requires some independently acquired information, such as looking out the window at the ground.

Have them fill out a old school navigation log. Jeppesen ones work well. One might argue we don't use navigation logs any more, but we use and should know all the components to make one. Things like Time and Distance, True vs magnetic headings, Wind Correction Angles. They can try to fill one out using their computer, but they will quickly figure out it is easier to do it manually after doing a few.

This is a common failure point on checkrides now, in that applicants don't understand these basic concept or what exactly their computer is really telling them. A recent example I am aware of is an applicant trying to figure out the True course using his computer.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL