Double Release Failure

It is likely that the probability of an ACTUAL double release failure on
tow is what ever positive number is closest to zero. Of course that
doesn't mean that Mr.Murphy can't serve one of these up.

I would be interested in hearing any accounts of actual, non-instructor
induced double release failures which required either a landing on tow
or purposely breaking he rope to end the problem.

I would also be interested in any opinions regarding practicing landing
on tow to prepare oneself for this unlikely event. (I know that this is
or was a required maneuver in some European countries...but is it worth
the risk?)

Paul
ZZ

On Sep 7, 9:05 pm, ZZ wrote:
It is likely that the probability of an ACTUAL double release failure on
tow is what ever positive number is closest to zero. Of course that
doesn't mean that Mr.Murphy can't serve one of these up.

I would be interested in hearing any accounts of actual, non-instructor
induced double release failures which required either a landing on tow
or purposely breaking he rope to end the problem.

I would also be interested in any opinions regarding practicing landing
on tow to prepare oneself for this unlikely event. (I know that this is
or was a required maneuver in some European countries...but is it worth
the risk?)

Paul
ZZ

OK, I've got two True Stories, although I was not a pilot involved in
either
case.

In the first, an experienced pilot came back from a flight and said
he'd had
a double release failure. He said that he just put a lot of slack in
the rope and
broke it. No big deal.

In the second, an instructor at my current club tried to simulate this
situation
and tried to land on tow. During descent the towplane got too far
below the
glider while they were low and a long ways from the airport. When the
rope
broke from the excessive slack generated by the situation this fellow
had
no option except for landing in a farmer's field. We had no
functional
trailer for the L13, either, so the retrieve was quite interesting.

Personally, I've been flying gliders for over 20 years and have yet to
personally
experience a failure of the release or rope. I did witness another
glider have a
rope "break" (actually his tow hook came unhooked) at low altitude and
make
a successful return to the launch point though.

On Sep 7, 7:05*pm, ZZ wrote:
It is likely that the probability of an ACTUAL double release failure on
tow is what ever positive number is closest to zero. Of course that
doesn't mean that Mr.Murphy can't serve one of these up.

I would be interested in hearing any accounts of actual, non-instructor
induced double release failures which required either a landing on tow
or purposely breaking he rope to end the problem.

I would also be interested in any opinions regarding practicing landing
on tow to prepare oneself for this unlikely event. (I know that this is
or was a required maneuver in some European countries...but is it worth
the risk?)

Paul
ZZ

I had a release failure (mostly) on my Open Cirrus (CG hook) once. I
landed one thermal short of home plate at a neighboring glider club
(UK). I handed a cheque out the clear vision panel and took a
launch. When I got to altitude and distance, I pulled the release.
Nothing. I pulled another dozen times in rapid succession, nothing.
I called the tow plane on the radio, no answer. Called several more
time, nothing. I flew out to the left and waggled the wings, no
response from the tow plane. I was hoping he wasn't going to give me
the "bugger off" wing waggle and turn back. A few more pulls and it
let go thankfully. Next step would have been to put in the slack
and break it. Seemed a long time, but really only a few moments. The
TOST hook was replaced before the next flight. No broken springs,
just wear.

So, I guess it really depends on how you define release failure.

Frank Whiteley

Paul,
I was fortunate enough to be trained in this procedure, albeit 35+
years ago. I was at summer camp that Fred Robinson had for kids at
Crystalaire. We're jarring a few cobwebs here but if I remember
correctly, the glider would decend to a low tow position and use the
spoilers for decent. The glider would touch down first but you had to
be careful not to stall and drop the towplane in with excessive
braking.

We had a 1-34 at the time that needed a radio installed. We didn't
have a trailer and the nearby radio shop was at a tower controlled
airport (KAPC). We called the tower and they suggested that the
glider land with the towplane that had a radio. I wasn't old enough
to fly powerplanes yet so my father flew the towplane and I flew the
glider. The airport was quite large and the flight was uneventful.

Bottom line, it's not as scary as it sounds but I would suggest proper
training before trying this on your own. Is anyone teaching this
anymore?

Barry

*Is anyone teaching this
anymore?

Barry

Sure. It's a good exercise for proficiency and confidence building.
Touch and goes, taxiing and even turning at runway intersection to
take off on a different runway. Good communication, experienced tow
pilots, proper conditions, FUN!

In message
,
Frank Whiteley writes
snip
I flew out to the left and waggled the wings, no
response from the tow plane.
Snip

I had that when learning to give the cannot release signal - it left me
wondering how much use it really is. BTW our tow plane has a retrieve
winch on the rope plus a guillotine for cutting the rope as the release.

--
Surfer!
Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net

Aside from the one anecdotal account in this thread, I don't recall that I
ever heard of a double failure, though doubtless it's happened somewhere
at some time.

So far as I know practicing landing on tow was never a requirement in any
European country, though I believe it was in Australia at one time.

We tried it a few times at Booker years back. As mentioned elsewhere, the
glider goes into low-tow and lands before the tow-plane. Not that
difficult but certainly not that safe and easy. I would expect a fair
number of accidents to result if it was introduced as part of normal
training and given that I'm not aware of any as a result of double
failures clearly not worth the risk.

At 01:05 08 September 2009, ZZ wrote:
It is likely that the probability of an ACTUAL double release failure on

tow is what ever positive number is closest to zero. Of course that
doesn't mean that Mr.Murphy can't serve one of these up.

I would be interested in hearing any accounts of actual, non-instructor
induced double release failures which required either a landing on tow
or purposely breaking he rope to end the problem.

I would also be interested in any opinions regarding practicing landing
on tow to prepare oneself for this unlikely event. (I know that this is
or was a required maneuver in some European countries...but is it worth
the risk?)

Paul
ZZ

On 8 Sep, 09:45, Chris Rollings wrote:

So far as I know practicing landing on tow was never a requirement in any
European country, though I believe it was in Australia at one time.

I was told that it was a mandatory part of training in France, and we
certainly used to see it happen regularly at Le Blanc. However, I've
just checked my 1991/2 editions of "Manuel de Pilote Vol à Voile" and
"Réglementation de la Circulation Aérienne" (that's the official
French gliding manual and a summary of the relevant laws) and can see
no mention in either.

Ian

We tried it a few times at Booker years back. *As mentioned elsewhere, the
glider goes into low-tow and lands before the tow-plane. *Not that
difficult but certainly not that safe and easy. *

I tried it once, while at Tehachapi with no lift and nothing else to
do. It was part of their training program. The glider stayed in high
tow, not low. The thinking was, why do something unusual along with an
emergency. Open spoilers, slip as necessary, follow the towplane down
a shallow pattern, land normally, i.e. after the towplane. It was
very uneventful, but an experienced towpilot and a long runway
probably had a lot to do with that.

John Cochrane BB

I too remember being trained doing this maneuver in France. It was
called "retour au sol" (back to ground)
You could always tell when someone was closed to solo, as this was
part of the curriculum back then.

You would open the speedbrakes full, drop down below the tow plane
wake turbulence, and wait for the tow pilot do its thing. I do not
remember being told that we could stall the glider on landing. Perhaps
it was because you would need to close the speed brakes while flaring.
You obviously don't need them full on very short final.

Interestingly, I also learned this maneuver later on as a tow pilot
itself. And let me tell you that this is where it is actually the most
challenging! We had to remember that there was a glider below you,
underneath that wake. So you would have to arrive much higher on
final, even higher than when you are just returning with the rope
only. Landing was uneventful, you would just have to remember to keep
taxiing a bit long, to give enough room for the glider behind you to
stop.

It's not an necessarily an unsafe maneuver and I was surprised while
flying in the US that a tow release failure is barely mentioned.

Richard
Phoenix,AZ